Miracles or Reef Savvy?

[JLowder]

I’ve got (3) tanks being built by ReefSavvy right now. A 900+ gallon for my office, a 250 gallon for the house, and a 100 gallon frag tank for the house as well. Yes, I know I need to get build threads going. For the office, the entire fish room is lined in stainless steel sheets from floor to ceiling. Looks beautiful.

 

[atlfishes]

Good luck getting reef savvy to contact you back. I sent in multiple requests and 4 months later nothing. Ended up going MRC because they are local. Miracles was responsive and probably my second choice.

 

[choss]

What's your pick, looking to eventually upgrade in a year or two and would like to hear from everyone what there choice would be? Budget really not an issue but I do live in Canada so not having to pay border fees on a $5000+ tank would be nice but not a deal breaker by any means. Also for those that have gone with a miracles aquarium, did you go all out with starfire? If so how has it held up? Any and all input is greatly appreciated... I do like the look of both

I did a lot of research before purchasing a reef savvy. Here is what I will tell you...there are no reported issues with any reef savvy tank. None. No imperfections, no issues. And the tanks are Art. We might consider saving a few hundred bucks but when you consider how much we spend on equipment, livestock, and maintenance, why would you risk anything less than perfection on your display? My reef savvy is a tank. Literally. pVC bottom, armored seals. Amazing quality. Worth the wait. And Felix is the best. When the owner is also customer service you know you have something special.

 

[JoshH]

There armoured seams do look sharp and the only complaint's I've come across are the wait times, I've been able to experience these already 2 weeks after requesting a quote and nothing but an empty inbox. Miracles did take 4 days and I've yet to proposition concept. And you are right about saving a few hundred dollars and it not being a big deal but really depending on which route I take I could be saving $1500+ which could cover some of the said equipment. Hense the toss up and my now thread

 

[choss]

There armoured seams do look sharp and the only complaint's I've come across are the wait times, I've been able to experience these already 2 weeks after requesting a quote and nothing but an empty inbox. Miracles did take 4 days and I've yet to proposition concept. And you are right about saving a few hundred dollars and it not being a big deal but really depending on which route I take I could be saving $1500+ which could cover some of the said equipment. Hense the toss up and my now thread

Yes there is a wait and I'm sure the miracles tank will be amazing so I'd go for it if you want to get started right away. For me I took a lot of time planning so waiting on the tank was fine. What is funny is now that I've had the tank a few months I'm still working on plumbing. I should finally be getting the tank wet by Thanksgiving.

 

[JoshH]

The waiting isn't really a huge deal breaker as I'm not looking for any time soon but I feel waiting a few weeks for a quick quote is a bit of a stretch... I totally get waiting 6-12 months for it to be built but getting to the deposit stage shouldn't take as long lol And yeah the getting setup stage seems to take just as long which is why I don't mind waiting for it to be built as it gives you time to aquire all the necessary equipment without being in a huge rush. I'll have to look into the couple other fabricators that have been suggested here as well

 

[Fin]

The waiting isn't really a huge deal breaker as I'm not looking for any time soon but I feel waiting a few weeks for a quick quote is a bit of a stretch... I totally get waiting 6-12 months for it to be built but getting to the deposit stage shouldn't take as long lol And yeah the getting setup stage seems to take just as long which is why I don't mind waiting for it to be built as it gives you time to aquire all the necessary equipment without being in a huge rush. I'll have to look into the couple other fabricators that have been suggested here as well

You could also call them - 800 652-4918. Remember that you are talking about a company that is a small family run business. Basically; Felix, his wife and his father. I am sure he has other helpers, but Felix builds all the tanks. His reputation for quality has his products in high demand, hence the waiting time. All of the tanks he builds are custom order aquariums. Nothing is off the shelf, except the Ghost Overflows. I am sure they get an enormous amount of email and since the tanks have so many variables available, it takes a great deal of time to do a correct quote. Also imagine the amount of requests that they get for quotes that turn into just that - only quotes.

At one point in time, I really wanted a Miracles tank. When I was deciding on this tank, I wrote for quotes from both companies. It took about a month for Katiria to answer and get more info from me. Miracles, on the other hand, never replied to me at all. So there's that. :-)

 

[JoshH]

It truly shows everyone's experience is unique, I got a response from miracles in few days. And yes I'm well aware Reef Savvy is far from the larger companies which is part of the reason why I was originally drawn to them, aside from the wonderful builds I've seen come out of there shop. And yes quote's are definitely as unique as the people requesting them requiring more time to go through and make up. And I'm sure I will hear from them eventually I'm not overly concerned, it's just a little longer than I thought it would be. But it does seem like everyone agrees all the waiting is definitely worth it in the end.

 

[JoshH]

Well I've now gotten quotes from both and I gotta say the reef savvys a bit of a bitter pill to swallow in comparison lol Miracles came in at $1850 for a 100 gal 5/8" starfire minus overflow but holes all pre-drilled that plus roughly $350 to crate and ship and taxes comes in around $2200.00. Reef savvy with armoured seams, phantom bottom, ghost overflow and 1/2" low iron glass comes in at $4641.00 plus shipping and border fees brings this bad boy close to the $6000.00 mark... I think I might have just made my decision, while felixs work is incredible I'll admit, it seems miracles is a close contender and at 1/3 the cost, it's hard to justify it in my head. Money's not an issue but I feel common sense must prevail here lol

 

[Fin]

It is a big difference, but to be fair, you are comparing pricing on a bare bones Miracles tank (without even an overflow, if I read correctly) to a well-dressed Reef Savvy. The shipping to Canada from Miami and border fee were going to be a potential deal killer from the beginning, but at least you were ready for that. I can tell you that my 125, including shipping, was only slightly more than your quote from Miracles. Granted, I ordered the tank in May of 2015, so prices may be different now.

My tank is 48x24x25 with ½" Starphire glass on three sides, euro-braced with beveled edges, standard bottom and black silicone seams, with a blacked out back. It was drilled for the included Ghost Overflow and two 3/4" return lines. Crated and shipped to my door for only a few hundred dollars more than your quote from Miracles.

I am sure that you will be well pleased with the Miracles tank though. I might have one today, had they responded to my quote request. :) BTW, I think you can still get a Ghost Overflow from Miracles. I saw a couple of months ago that Felix shipped a bunch of them up there to use on some of their builds.

Good luck with the new tank and hope that you will post a build thread when you get it.

 

[JoshH]

It's definitely not comparing apples to apples with the few extra finishes on the reef savvy and I do realize that. But between the dollar being so low and all those lovely fees, half of what I'd be paying won't even be related to the tank. Which is kindof why I started this thread to see if people believe that it's really worth the added expense of paying the banks and government. I appreciate everyone's input and heck I might just get the reef savvy and pray the GF doesn't kill me, I haven't been known to be frugal lol Oh and thank you for the heads up on the ghost overflow I'll have to look into that!

 

[hart24601]

I wouldn't trade my Miracles tanks for reef-savvy even for same cost. Just saying. :)

RS does have some really cool features, but I don't think the actual build quality of the tanks are any higher. Once you get to a top level the quality should all be top notch, after that pay for secondary features and customer service which while RS has more features the service I had from Miracles pushed them over the top. I know others have had difference experences, but that is mine with two custom built tanks from them. I even changed the design to external overflow mid build and they were able to handle it.

Here is the link to my 120 3/4" from them:

http://www.reefedition.com/reef-spotlight-bret-hartmans-120g/

 

[JoshH]

I wouldn't trade my Miracles tanks for reef-savvy even for same cost. Just saying. :)

RS does have some really cool features, but I don't think the actual build quality of the tanks are any higher. Once you get to a top level the quality should all be top notch, after that pay for secondary features and customer service which while RS has more features the service I had from Miracles pushed them over the top. I know others have had difference experences, but that is mine with two custom built tanks from them. I even changed the design to external overflow mid build and they were able to handle it.

Here is the link to my 120 3/4" from them:

http://www.reefedition.com/reef-spotlight-bret-hartmans-120g/

Absolutely stunning. Thank you for your input, on a side note, how do you manage to keep all those starfish going??

 

[hart24601]

IMO carbon dosing, aka vinegar and vodka to increase the micro and small macroscopic life via boosting the food chain from the bottom up has been a real game changer for keeping some inverts. I dose a little carbon at least in kalk now only for that purpose, not for reducing nutrients.

 

[JoshH]

Interesting insight and I'm sure there are a ton of benefits from boosting the microfauna in our systems. And if keeping stars for an extended time is one of then I might have to hop on board. It's also interesting to see that in only a couple of years the availability of things has come a long way. I specifically asked for 5/8" starfire and that was no problem atall.

 

[Kyl]

There armoured seams do look sharp and the only complaint's I've come across are the wait times, I've been able to experience these already 2 weeks after requesting a quote and nothing but an empty inbox. Miracles did take 4 days and I've yet to proposition concept. And you are right about saving a few hundred dollars and it not being a big deal but really depending on which route I take I could be saving $1500+ which could cover some of the said equipment. Hense the toss up and my now thread

If you talk to Concept, just go through Dave. One thing to note though, PPG and the other Starphyre manufacturer have been raising prices steadily the past few months, I believe glass has already risen over 20% since the summer.

 

[Dugless]

I received an original and a replacement tank with equally concerning problems from Miracles. Multiple scratches on the glass interiors (clearly not shipping damage) and both had drilled returns that failed to match my request (sad when the hole is both the wrong size and on the wrong side). When I inquired after the replacement tank was delivered, all responses stopped. I like the framed bottom and rimless style, but I won’t use Miracles again.

 

[choss]

You could also call them - 800 652-4918. Remember that you are talking about a company that is a small family run business. Basically; Felix, his wife and his father. I am sure he has other helpers, but Felix builds all the tanks. His reputation for quality has his products in high demand, hence the waiting time. All of the tanks he builds are custom order aquariums. Nothing is off the shelf, except the Ghost Overflows. I am sure they get an enormous amount of email and since the tanks have so many variables available, it takes a great deal of time to do a correct quote. Also imagine the amount of requests that they get for quotes that turn into just that - only quotes.

At one point in time, I really wanted a Miracles tank. When I was deciding on this tank, I wrote for quotes from both companies. It took about a month for Katiria to answer and get more info from me. Miracles, on the other hand, never replied to me at all. So there's that. :)

What you are saying about Felix and the fact that he builds each tank himself is absolutely the reason I love these guys (besides the amazing tanks). During the build there were times where Felix would call me and we'd spend 30 minutes to an hour walking through pros and cons of each decision I needed to make. He's really helpful even after my tank arrived. I had a small issue because I used schedule 80 unions behind the Ghost Overflow. The Ghost is so narrow that the unions are actually slightly wider than the width of the overflow box. Felix send me several thicker gaskets to test out and the problem is now solved. Email is sometimes delayed from him but he will get back to you. But I would call and get the order placed. I couldn't be happier with the service and quality this company delivers!

 

[Fin]

What you are saying about Felix and the fact that he builds each tank himself is absolutely the reason I love these guys (besides the amazing tanks). During the build there were times where Felix would call me and we'd spend 30 minutes to an hour walking through pros and cons of each decision I needed to make. He's really helpful even after my tank arrived. I had a small issue because I used schedule 80 unions behind the Ghost Overflow. The Ghost is so narrow that the unions are actually slightly wider than the width of the overflow box. Felix send me several thicker gaskets to test out and the problem is now solved. Email is sometimes delayed from him but he will get back to you. But I would call and get the order placed. I couldn't be happier with the service and quality this company delivers!

Exactly my experience with Felix and I have heard this over and over from other Reef Savvy owners. My tank was little compared to some of the expensive behemoths he turns out and once my time came on the list, I still got plenty of personal service. I know I talked to him several times on the phone and messaged a number of times through Messenger. Even changed my order up a couple of times.

 

[Kyl]

I am sure they get an enormous amount of email and since the tanks have so many variables available, it takes a great deal of time to do a correct quote. Also imagine the amount of requests that they get for quotes that turn into just that - only quotes.

I went with a company local to the western half of Canada, but the process was the same. I was probably more prepared than 90% of the people that inquire and do get a tank built, I did a complete Sketch-Up of the tank and sump. That still took three weeks of back and forth, simply for the fact I don't build tanks and wasn't aware of some of the nuances in doing so.

I can't imagine the email volume someone like Felix gets, given the US market.