Mixing Alk Cal and Mg in dry form

[coralcruze]

This question is for Randy Holmes-Farley:

I am trying to pre-measure Alk, Cal and Mg using your formula to mix with my makeup saltwater that I use for water changes once a month. I am using dowflake, sodium carbonate anahydryed and emsum salt and would like to store the pre-measured amounts in small zip lock bags in thier dry form.

1. is there any issues mixing these and storing them together in zip lock bags?
2. is there any issue pouring them together into the saltwater mix?
3. OR am I better off just mixing these separately into my saltwater?

Thanks in advance!!!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You have a salt mix that needs them all?

 

[coralcruze]

Thank you Randy,
Yes Instant ocean needs them all, but that's because I like to keep my levels elevated....

I shoot for
Ca 425
Alk 10 dkh
Mg 1325

so I would like to add dowflake, sodium carbonate Anahydryed and Epsum Salt to boost those three in the IO mix.
I tested IO at Ca 355 Alk 7.8 and Mg 1120 with red sea test kit.

My water changes are automated for daily changes of about .5 gal.

My goal is to stabilize the majors with water changes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you Randy,
Yes Instant ocean needs them all, but that's because I like to keep my levels elevated....

I shoot for
Ca 425
Alk 10 dkh
Mg 1325

so I would like to add dowflake, sodium carbonate Anahydryed and Epsum Salt to boost those three in the IO mix.
I tested IO at Ca 355 Alk 7.8 and Mg 1120 with red sea test kit.

My water changes are automated for daily changes of about .5 gal.

My goal is to stabilize the majors with water changes.

Something is wrong. IO has much higher alk than you quote, and higher than your target. ~11 dKH

It also targets much higher magnesium. ~1300 ppm

I agree it needs calcium.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is certainly fine to dry mix the calcium and the magnesium.

If you keep it very dry, mixing in the alk would likely be OK.

 

[coralcruze]

Something is wrong. IO has much higher alk than you quote, and higher than your target. ~11 dKH

It also targets much higher magnesium. ~1300 ppm

I agree it needs calcium.

Oh...I will pick up new test kits then, they are a bit old.

It is certainly fine to dry mix the calcium and the magnesium.

If you keep it very dry, mixing in the alk would likely be OK.

Could I then pour this dry mix directly into the freshly mixed Instant Ocean Saltwater or would I need to mix the three in fresh water first?

Thanks again for all of your help now and throughout the years...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

DEFINITELY do not mix them in fresh water first. It will instantly precipitate, and that is even a slight risk dry moving them depending on how dry they really are.

You are quite welcome. [emoji3]

 

[homer1475]

I was going to say that I switched to IO a couple years back. I've gone through I don't know how many 200G boxes, and my ALk has always come out around 10 or 11 in a new batch. Cal right around 380, and Mag around 1300.

I would retest before adding anything.

 

[coralcruze]

I was going to say that I switched to IO a couple years back. I've gone through I don't know how many 200G boxes, and my ALk has always come out around 10 or 11 in a new batch. Cal right around 380, and Mag around 1300.

I would retest before adding anything.

I think my alk test kit is off (old). I will be getting my new test kits very soon. Thank you for confirming Randy's suspicion.

 

[coralcruze]

just a quick follow up to the thread... I received new red sea mg, cal and alk test kits today and ran all new tests to compare test kits and the test kits give very similar results so it turns out that my original tests on the fresh saltwater by IO was correct. However, I have decided to get rid of the saltwater in the container and mix all new fresh saltwater by IO and see what the results are again once mixed and will report hopefully sometime tomorrow.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The Red Sea mag kit really seems to give problems to many folks, even when reproducible.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

I'm with Randy. All the Instant Ocean I've ever used has around your target values. At 52 mS/cm (S = 34.2 ppt), my current batch is alkalinity = 10.9 dKh, Ca = 440 ppm and Mg = 1,440 ppm. Double check that your salinity measuring tool is calibrated with a reliable standard. It's possible your salinity is way low, and that the values of the major elements are low as a result.

 

[coralcruze]

Thanks chipmunkofdoom... for the confirmation.

so I made up a fresh batch of saltwater... this time making sure to clean the container and also mixing the salt out of the bag really well in a 5g bucket to ensure that all the fines are incorporated/mixed well. I used exactly 18 cups of IO salt to make up 41 gallons of saltwater to 1.0025 at 78 degrees for testing...

The new test results:

Alk = 9.8 dKh
Cal = 380
Mg = 1380

I think these numbers are more in line with what Randy and everyone else is saying here. In the end it was not my older test kits but rather me not mixing the salt coming out of the bag and not cleaning the bucket which had some old saltwater in there. Could anyone tall me what else may have cause the original numbers to be off the way they were?

Just as Randy mentioned Cal shows to be a little low so I will be boosting that.

Last question:

I would like to boost the Alk to 11 dKh, Cal to 450 and Mg to 1450 from the above numbers. I use Randys calculator but just to make sure... are these boosted numbers still in balance? This boosted water param will be delivered in 1/2 gal/day water changes. i do have an absolutely full at capacity mixed reef that is predominantly sps and is the reason I want the new saltwater to contain a bit more in it for that which is used up by the corals and animals. does this make sense? Thanks in advance.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

One issue is that boosting alk in new salt water tends to drive precipitation. That's why Red Sea Coral Pro, with very high alk, wants you to use it fast.

What is balanced depends on what you mean. The ratio you post for alk/cal is about balanced in the sense that if you precipitate calcium carbonate from it, you can get close to NSW levels (although magnesium is much higher).

 

[coralcruze]

So is it realistic to think that freshly mixed 40g saltwater that is used slowly over the course of a months time still show boosted levels over that time period sitting in a bucket?

I guess I can test the water again after two three weeks of use to see. just wondering what can be expected? And... wouldnt elevated Mg levels help stabilize alk and cal?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So is it realistic to think that freshly mixed 40g saltwater that is used slowly over the course of a months time still show boosted levels over that time period sitting in a bucket?

I guess I can test the water again after two three weeks of use to see. just wondering what can be expected? And... wouldnt elevated Mg levels help stabilize alk and cal?

How much (if at all) it drops will depend on heat (higher is worse), and pH (higher is worse), in addition to the starting parameters. Many folks do find it declines.

Yes, magnesium helps, as do other things in reef tanks that are not generally in new salt water (organics, phosphate, bacteria, etc. )

 

[coralcruze]

In terms of getting the majors as stable as possible to NSW... what would you say is the best way to replenish the majors over the course of time?

dosing them directly into the tank...
dosing using Cal. Reactor...
dosing using Kalk reactor...
other?

 

[Zazzy]

Thank you Randy,
Yes Instant ocean needs them all, but that's because I like to keep my levels elevated....

I shoot for
Ca 425
Alk 10 dkh
Mg 1325

so I would like to add dowflake, sodium carbonate Anahydryed and Epsum Salt to boost those three in the IO mix.
I tested IO at Ca 355 Alk 7.8 and Mg 1120 with red sea test kit.

My water changes are automated for daily changes of about .5 gal.

My goal is to stabilize the majors with water changes.

Which not just buy red Sea coral pro. That's literally what they keep their salt at I know because I use it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

In terms of getting the majors as stable as possible to NSW... what would you say is the best way to replenish the majors over the course of time?

dosing them directly into the tank...
dosing using Cal. Reactor...
dosing using Kalk reactor...
other?

All of those work fine.

While I used limewater (kalkwasser) for 20 years, I might switch to a diy two part using hydroxide if I started another tank. Two parts allow better control over timing of dosing..

I'd only pick a CaCO3/CO2 reactor if it was a huge tank.