Mixing Room to Display Tank Piping Question

Reef2Rags · Aug 31, 2020

I am currently in the design stages of a mixing room and display tank.
My goal is to design and build the support structure that a display tank will require so that when I start the tank it is easier to maintain.
I know that water changes are necessary, and that I don't want to lug around water buckets. My wife will most likely hurt (or leave) me if I trash the floors throughout our house.

So here is my thought, and I need some help with how others have done it if this won't work out well.

I am putting a water mixing station in my basement, about 12-15 feet (plus the vertical run) from where the tank will reside on the main floor.
I want to pipe from the mixing station 12-15 feet (mounted to the ceiling of the basement) then up the wall to the main floor where the display tank will be.
Next to the tank I want to use a 'washing machine outlet box' (below). My thought is that I could run my piping only when I need to do the changes, but maintain a clean look when not using it. If I run a switch to an outlet (or use a smart plug, or RF switch) I could even control the pump from right next to the tank.

I could then run a line for RODI water for the ATO, and a separate line for the salt water mixture. Do I need separate lines?
What size line would you recommend (based on a 30 foot total run to be safe)?

susan ingram · Aug 31, 2020

This is legit!! Bumping for some advice

sorry Iforgot...WELCOME TO R2R!!!

Reef2Rags · Sep 1, 2020

susan ingram said:
This is legit!! Bumping for some advice

sorry Iforgot...WELCOME TO R2R!!!

Thank you Susan! I think I might move this to a different discussion. I may have put it in the wrong spot to get advice.

Sisterlimonpot · Sep 1, 2020

Planning ahead is a great idea, sounds like you have the ideal space to have most [if not all] of the equipment in the basement and only have the display tank on the main floor. I would encourage you to look into peristaltic pumps because these would be the ideal choice for filling your ATO or if in the future to prevent lugging water containers up and down stairs you can also use a pair of peristaltic pumps to conduct water changes right from your mixing station.

As far as teeing off of the cold water spigot from the washing machine, that's a great idea. They sell Y adapters just for that reason.

I can't tell if your mixing station is going to be permanently set up in the basement or if you're planning to set up and tear down in between making water. Hopefully you can carve out a spot in the basement to accommodate this as a permanent set up so that you can automate the entire process.

Sisterlimonpot · Sep 1, 2020

Most hobbyists have adopted a 2 container mixing station. One container with RODI water and the other with salt water. there would be a pump that ties the 2 together.

Traditionally, you would have your RODI outlet plumbed into your freshwater container with a float valve to fill it up, and when you're ready to mix up salt water you would turn a few valves and transfer the water over into the other container. Once it's full you can turn a few valves again to have the same pump circulate water in that container and add salt to it so that it would mix.

It's not as complicated as it sounds, here's my build thread that shows the traditional way it's done.

Large Build - My rendition of 300

Since I re-aligned my laser it has been slicing through acrylic like butter. The filter sock cover is layered with 1/4" black, 3/8" clear and another 1/4" black, that's 7/8" thick piece that it had to cut through to make this hole for the uniseal. And just like that: 1. Build and paint...

www.reef2reef.com

Sisterlimonpot · Sep 1, 2020

I pick back up here with the mixing station...

Large Build - My rendition of 300

I never thought that I would be this excited to have the lights working!!! I finally made progress. After getting back into the hobby I started catching up on equipment room builds and one that has stood out for me is a thread by halmus his attention to detail is awe-inspiring and that even if...

www.reef2reef.com

Reef2Rags · Sep 1, 2020

Thank you for the reply, I will check out your build thread today!

I plan on having a permanent RODI container and a separate salt water tank plumbed together with a pump to mix/cycle the salt water. My plan is to pipe from the basement mixing station to the "washing machine outlet box" on the main floor. Then when it is time to do a water change, I can connect a hose on the main floor at the washing machine outlet box to the tank. The saltwater container in the basement will have a heater so the water temp is the same as the tank.

I planned to use the same process to will the ATO tank (under the display tank on the main floor) with RODI water.

Do I need two separate pipes running from the basement to the the main floor outlet, or can I use a Y and use 1 set of pipes.

Ltlevil1 · Sep 1, 2020

You can use the same line, but you will want to make sure and drain it between uses. You can use the same pump as well. You will have to make a trip downstairs to open close valves, but a single line could be used to pump it to the DT.

waterskiguy · Sep 1, 2020

If you run one set of pipes, You'd have to purge your line every time you want to switch and might still contaminate your water. However, unless you have a really long run or large diameter pipe run, this will probably be negligible. If its a short run, you probably wouldn't even have to purge the tubing before using it, depending on what size system you'll be running.

Reef2Rags · Sep 1, 2020

Since the outlet box has a 'hot and cold' I will pipe with red and blue to designate RODI and saltwater. I think using separate pipes will be better long term. Thanks!

susan ingram · Sep 1, 2020

Following with interest!!

jandlms · Sep 1, 2020

Maybe I am not seeing this as you intend, but how high are you pumping the water? Will the newly made saltwater be pumped into a sump or directly into the display tank?
if you are pumping up ten feet you might need a large and expensive enough pump that the system might be a bit pricey.
Secondly if you pump directly into a tank without a sump for some mixing to occur with the water already present you might want to consider heating the water in the mixing tanks and be extremely careful with the salinity, pH and probably other water parameters for what is being pumped into the display. A sump at least dilutes the problems a bit.

Reef2Rags · Sep 2, 2020

jandlms said:
Maybe I am not seeing this as you intend, but how high are you pumping the water? Will the newly made saltwater be pumped into a sump or directly into the display tank?
if you are pumping up ten feet you might need a large and expensive enough pump that the system might be a bit pricey.
Secondly if you pump directly into a tank without a sump for some mixing to occur with the water already present you might want to consider heating the water in the mixing tanks and be extremely careful with the salinity, pH and probably other water parameters for what is being pumped into the display. A sump at least dilutes the problems a bit.

I do plan on pumping into a sump...

I am hoping to pump it from the basement to the first floor. I too was thinking about the pump requirement to pump that far, one of the reasons I posted here. I am hoping to be able to pump about 25 total feet, with about 10-12 feet vertical.

mike550 · Sep 2, 2020

@Reef2Rags this is a great idea, and I hope you can pull it off. I've got a similar situation in that the vertical rise from mixing station to the tank is about 20+ feet, so you need a pump that can generate enough head to get the water to where you want it with adequate flow. I'm not a plumber, but my sense is that larger pipe creates less head loss -- so maybe 1" pipe?

On the outlet end of the hose you can put a shut off valve so you can turn off the water when you want to, and then turn off the pump. The back pressure won't be a big deal for the types of pumps we use for such a short period of time.

How are you planning to drain waste water?

Also -- I'm wondering if the brass fittings will cause any issues to "contaminating" your saltwater. My guess is that it shouldn't have any real impact. But just thinking out loud.

Reef2Rags · Sep 2, 2020

@mike550, I am thankful that my vertical rise is only about 12 feet, but I have some learning to do about head space and flow losses.

The outlet end will have a shut off valve, but I am hoping to wire a switch to the main floor that I can cut off the pump so I don't have to run down just to turn it off. Good point regarding back pressure. I hope to control it all from the main floor, but we will see what ends up working.

Right now the wastewater is a problem area. I don't want to drain it to the house sump pump pit because I think th salt water will degrade the pumps I have there. I have a utility sink in the basement I can run it to, but it would be really difficult. I thought about just putting some rock/gravel outside of the window closest to the pump and pumping it right into the ground... Lastly, and not preferred, I could just pump into buckets and send it down the toilet. Any thoughts or ideas?

I was worried about the brass fittings falling apart, but I didn't think about it contaminating the tank. I am trying to find PVC valves that can be retrofit into an outlet box.

mike550 · Sep 2, 2020

Reef2Rags said:
@mike550, I am thankful that my vertical rise is only about 12 feet, but I have some learning to do about head space and flow losses.

The outlet end will have a shut off valve, but I am hoping to wire a switch to the main floor that I can cut off the pump so I don't have to run down just to turn it off. Good point regarding back pressure. I hope to control it all from the main floor, but we will see what ends up working.

Right now the wastewater is a problem area. I don't want to drain it to the house sump pump pit because I think th salt water will degrade the pumps I have there. I have a utility sink in the basement I can run it to, but it would be really difficult. I thought about just putting some rock/gravel outside of the window closest to the pump and pumping it right into the ground... Lastly, and not preferred, I could just pump into buckets and send it down the toilet. Any thoughts or ideas?

I was worried about the brass fittings falling apart, but I didn't think about it contaminating the tank. I am trying to find PVC valves that can be retrofit into an outlet box.

Sounds like you're heading down the right path. For electronic shut off I've seen that a number of folks use a remote control so you can avoid the wiring.

Completely agree that I wouldn't want to put the water into your sump pit. Besides the pump issue, if your sump has an overflow / diverter you might end up with saltwater on your lawn on something. I was thinking that you could use one of the two lines for the waste water and then use the other for both salt or RODI based on your needs. I siphon off my waste water to a nearby sink, but not the most elegant solution.

Take a look at this (hopefully the link works)

FLAIR-IT 1/2 in. Plastic PEX Male Pipe Thread x 3/4 in. Male Hose Thread Washing Machine Valve 16886 - The Home Depot

FLAIR-IT Compression PEX and Polybutylene fittings meet cNSF-14pw and NSF-61 and are manufactured to ASTM standards F876/F877 and CSA 137.5 specifications. FLAIR-IT fittings are ideal for professional

www.homedepot.com

jandlms · Sep 2, 2020

Going to need a big pump to pump up ten to 12 feet. Are you keeping your sump in the basement or under the display? My last tank was plumbed to a sump in the basement (ten plus feet) and I needed a Hammerhead for my return pump. That’s a lot of pump to invest into a water change system. You probably can get by with a smaller pump as this isn’t a return pump situation but you need to seriously look at your pump specs before you buy a pump only to find it won’t pump water over that distance. I would also contact the company because sometimes the printed specs don’t have a gigantic foothold in the real world.