Monitoring Indoor CO2 Level

Dennis Cartier

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Often I see posts about PH issues and trying to diagnose the root cause. More often than not, the suggestion is that high indoor CO2 levels are to blame for the low PH. I recently added a CO2 meter to my fishroom to provide feedback on some adjustments I had made. In the past, these meters were expensive and not that common, but now plenty of meters are available that use NDIR sensors and are a worthwhile addition to a reef hobbyists arsenal. Just knowing what the indoor CO2 level is helps to confirm or rule out that high indoor CO2 levels are the cause of low tank PH.

At my previous house I was faced with low PH. I read up and followed the advice on how to diagnose and adjust for it. I added an external skimmer line, and that helped a bit, and then I added a HRV with the fresh air exhaust pumped directly into the fishroom. That helped a lot. So when I moved a couple years ago, and as I was replacing all the HVAC equipment in the new house, I was certain to include a large capable HRV. Based on how useful the HRV was, and the fact that I had to have it operating pretty much 100% of the time to get the most benefit for the tank, I shelled out for models with ECM motors for the HRV and furnace to keep monthly hydro costs down.

My frag tank is running at about 7.95 without Kalk and 8.1 with. Not bad, but not the 8.2 and 8.3 that my old tank used to run at. So I decided to turn my HRV to Max ventilation rather than the "Smart" mode that allowed it to choose the duty cycle of the air exchange. This did not seem to have a noticeable effect on the PH of the tank. This fact got me to wondering if the new HRV was providing the same level of ventilation as the old system. Since I was dealing with finished ceilings, the new HRV was plumbed into the ducts in the utility room only and not venting directly into the fishroom like before. That is what gave me the idea of adding a CO2 monitor.

I could measure the indoor air quality and see if the HRV was keeping the CO2 level low, or if the Max setting was effective compared to the smart mode.

I ordered a cheap desktop CO2 meter and installed it a couple of days ago. The morning after, I went down and had a look at the reading. 430 ppm. So that tells me that the HRV is doing its job and keeping CO2 at pretty much outdoor levels. When my 2 dogs and myself wake up and are in the basement in the morning, the meter reading goes up to ~450 ppm. The meter seems to be pretty sensitive to changes in the local CO2 production. The manufacturer shows an accuracy of +/-30 ppm, so for my purposes, quite acceptable.

As for my lower than expected PH? A post by Randy from a few days ago has provided a clue as to the cause. I have a sulfur denitrification reactor inline with some of my filtration, and have noticed the lower than expected PH and Calcium getting out of balance with Alk, both of which are symptoms of using sulfur denitrification.

Anyway just wanted to post about a new tool in the reef hobbyists arsenal.

Dennis
 
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Bonfish

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This is something I have been dealing with for about four years. I have not made the leap to HRV, but am curious which model you purchased? Also which CO2 monitor did you purchase? Thank you for sharing!
 
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Dennis Cartier

Dennis Cartier

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This is something I have been dealing with for about four years. I have not made the leap to HRV, but am curious which model you purchased? Also which CO2 monitor did you purchase? Thank you for sharing!

I went with a VanEE 90H-V ECM HRV. They have their product lines separated into medal colours (Bronze, Silver and Gold). This is a Silver level. The HVAC supplier convinced me that the gold level of the same unit would not bring anything extra for me as this already had the ECM motors .. and they did not carry the Gold units so they would have to order them in. I am happy with it. The filters are washable, unlike my old unit that used HEPA filters, but they were expensive to replace. Note, depending on where you are located, you may require an ERV rather than an HRV if the weather is warmer rather than cold. Sadly I need an HRV. :(

http://www.vanee.ca/en/residential-air-exchangers/product/32-90h-v-ecm-hrv.html

For the CO2 meter, I just grabbed this one. I probably should have went for a wall one for neater installation, but I figured I could upgrade later if I felt it worthwhile. I have far bigger issues to tackle in my fishroom (for neatness!) :)

https://www.co2meter.com/collection...ducts/tim10-desktop-co2-temp-humidity-monitor

Dennis
 

Bonfish

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Thank you very much I will check those out!
 

Bradw18

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Kinda got me thinking now. Apex is showing very low ph but always has even after Calb. Everything looks fine though. And has for almost 2 years. Iv been the guy that thinks of everything looks good why chase numbers. But would love to see what my tank could do with idea prams. Highest I get is 7.7
 
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Dennis Cartier

Dennis Cartier

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Kinda got me thinking now. Apex is showing very low ph but always has even after Calb. Everything looks fine though. And has for almost 2 years. Iv been the guy that thinks of everything looks good why chase numbers. But would love to see what my tank could do with idea prams. Highest I get is 7.7
I would suggest picking up a cheap PH test kit and confirming that the Apex is showing a true result (as suggested by another poster in your thread). If the test kit confirms the 7.7 value, then I would look into it further. Calcium carbonate can start to dissolve at 7.6, so if that reading is accurate, then looking for the source is warranted. If the test kit shows a much higher number, then your probe is bad, and you can start there.

Dennis
 

Mattrg02

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Has anyone done the math on using algae to scrub the house of c02?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Has anyone done the math on using algae to scrub the house of c02?

Scrub the house of CO2? Not going to happen in most homes with house plants or algae scrubber unless your home looks like a greenhouse.

Even ignoring huge sources such as kitchen stoves, the amount of CO2 you breathe out is quite large. Think of it this way, nearly all of the food you eat (and family members and pets, etc.) ends up as CO2. Since most people spend a considerable amount of time at home (say, 50% of your day), you then exhale a large fraction of that CO2 at home.

Assuming the 50% value, you would need to add mass to the algae or the house plants EACH DAY that was equal in carbon content (so roughly in dry mass) to 50% of the food you eat every day. That's a huge amount relative to growing algae in a typical reef tank. :)
 

Mattrg02

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Scrub the house of CO2? Not going to happen in most homes with house plants or algae scrubber unless your home looks like a greenhouse.

Even ignoring huge sources such as kitchen stoves, the amount of CO2 you breathe out is quite large. Think of it this way, nearly all of the food you eat (and family members and pets, etc.) ends up as CO2. Since most people spend a considerable amount of time at home (say, 50% of your day), you then exhale a large fraction of that CO2 at home.

Assuming the 50% value, you would need to add mass to the algae or the house plants EACH DAY that was equal in carbon content (so roughly in dry mass) to 50% of the food you eat every day. That's a huge amount relative to growing algae in a typical reef tank. :)

Ok, so my next idea...C02 scrubber respirators for all of us? I'm sure I could get everyone to go for wearing a mask, for the reef tanks sake.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Ok, so my next idea...C02 scrubber respirators for all of us? I'm sure I could get everyone to go for wearing a mask, for the reef tanks sake.

Absolutely. Just like in my lab, they are hanging by my front door. People drop their coats and put on a respirator. :D
respirator-and-headset.jpg
 

Mattrg02

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Absolutely. Just like in my lab, they are hanging by my front door. People drop their coats and put on a respirator. :D
respirator-and-headset.jpg

Awesome! I'll hang them at the doors and near the tank! "Welcome, my pH is low, so please put this on after you remove your shoes"
 
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Dennis Cartier

Dennis Cartier

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So yesterday I decided to see if the "Smart" mode of my HRV (where it decides on how often to exchange air with the outside and at what speed) is able to keep my CO2 level as low as it had been by running the HRV at max 24x7. I switched it to this mode yesterday morning and then checked back a few times. By last night the monitor was reading about 500 ppm. This was the highest reading that I had observed since the CO2 monitor went in earlier this week. It was also the first Saturday since the meter was installed, with CO2 sources being close to the tank for a longer period. This morning when I awoke, I checked the reading and it read 430 ppm. This is inline with what I was getting on the max setting (in the mornings). Based on this, I am planning to leave it on smart mode as the air exchange seems to be sufficient to get the CO2 level down close to outdoor ranges.

Dennis
 

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