Moorish Idol - nematode and black ich?

[Om84]

Hi

Looking for answers here. I bought a moorish idol a couple weeks ago from a local hobbyist. He said he has had the fish for a year and eats well. The idol does eat remarkably well. I placed him in QT. I noticed a couple black dots on its sides and given concern for black ich I did a course of Gen Cure for a week followed by Prazipro for another week. The black dots have not gone away. There are 2 on one side and another on the other. They do not move. They don't cause any problems from what I can tell. The idol eats everything I throw at it very well. Earlier today I noticed a small (~3/4") dark red colored string on the bottom of the QT tank. I put it under the microscope and this is what I see. Is this some kind of nematode? Should I be worried? What should I do? Where did it come from? Looking for @Jay Hemdal and @vetteguy53081 and any one else for input.

Thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi, I’m heading to work to give a lecture and I can’t view the videos on my phone. I’ll be offline until later tonight.
Black ich, turbellarian worms are common on moorish idols, but not long term captive ones. Was the thing under the scope moving?
Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi

Looking for answers here. I bought a moorish idol a couple weeks ago from a local hobbyist. He said he has had the fish for a year and eats well. The idol does eat remarkably well. I placed him in QT. I noticed a couple black dots on its sides and given concern for black ich I did a course of Gen Cure for a week followed by Prazipro for another week. The black dots have not gone away. There are 2 on one side and another on the other. They do not move. They don't cause any problems from what I can tell. The idol eats everything I throw at it very well. Earlier today I noticed a small (~3/4") dark red colored string on the bottom of the QT tank. I put it under the microscope and this is what I see. Is this some kind of nematode? Should I be worried? What should I do? Where did it come from? Looking for @Jay Hemdal and @vetteguy53081 and any one else for input.

Thanks

The worm image looks to be an anchor worm but not consistent with what the idol has on body which appear more like terbellarian worms associated with black ich. On either worm, the good news is that they treat the same. Beautiful and eating fish appears to be in quarantine. You have two choices:
Drop salinity to 1.009 and do hyposalinity which will address the worms effectively or treat with PraziPro which is praziquantel and also effective on worms.
For Prazi :
Dose at 80% of recommended and apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Add airstone to the tube you have air going through to increase surface exchange as prazi a reduces both oxygen and appetite

 

[vetteguy53081]

Mo

Hi, I’m heading to work to give a lecture and I can’t view the videos on my phone. I’ll be offline until later tonight.
Black ich, turbellarian worms are common on moorish idols, but not long term captive ones. Was the thing under the scope moving?
Jay

Moving slowly looking like turbellarian.

https://www.reef2reef.com/data/video/2987/2987879-d4ab1f9c3d761331598b6a166d05fe3d.mp4

 

[Om84]

The worm image looks to be an anchor worm but not consistent with what the idol has on body which appear more like terbellarian worms associated with black ich. On either worm, the good news is that they treat the same. Beautiful and eating fish appears to be in quarantine. You have two choices:
Drop salinity to 1.009 and do hyposalinity which will address the worms effectively or treat with PraziPro which is praziquantel and also effective on worms.
For Prazi :
Dose at 80% of recommended and apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Add airstone to the tube you have air going through to increase surface exchange as prazi a reduces both oxygen and appetite

I did PraziPro at the dose suggested on the bottle for one week already. The week before I did General Cure which has praziquantel in it. Does this mean this is treatment failure and the only thing left is Hyposalinity? Are these very infectious if I put the fish in display? The fish appears to be eating well and is unaffected. I have not seen it flash, etc.

Also, if this was black ich shouldn't I see more spots by now? I have had the fish now a little over 2 weeks. I have consistently seen the same 3 small black spots. You can barely make it out in the video when I zoom in.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I did PraziPro at the dose suggested on the bottle for one week already. The week before I did General Cure which has praziquantel in it. Does this mean this is treatment failure and the only thing left is Hyposalinity? Are these very infectious if I put the fish in display? The fish appears to be eating well and is unaffected. I have not seen it flash, etc.

Also, if this was black ich shouldn't I see more spots by now? I have had the fish now a little over 2 weeks. I have consistently seen the same 3 small black spots. You can barely make it out in the video when I zoom in.

Yu would have or should have seen spots and in video thought there were 2-3 black dots on mid-section ? In looking at the worm in video on a screen on my PC computer, looks more like a detritus worm. If more than one, increase siphoning. As for black ich, I was under impression you confirmed black ich and then seeing those dots which appeared like them. Dots on PC screen are distinct and often associated with worms or stings and sting is ruled out
With Prazi, two treatments are considered complete treatments and at times, a 3rd may be needed.
Overall the fish appears healthy and low stressed

 

[Om84]

Nope, no confirmation of black ich. Fish came in with those 2-3 black dots on midsection. It has stayed the same. As you pointed out fish is very healthy and for a moorish idol eating more than I would have imagined.

 

[Viking_Reefing]

Nope, no confirmation of black ich. Fish came in with those 2-3 black dots on midsection. It has stayed the same. As you pointed out fish is very healthy and for a moorish idol eating more than I would have imagined.

Actually, healthy moorish idols are eating machines. That’s where most people screw up…the seem to burn through food like crazy.
Ive kept a few over the past two decades and they have been fairly easy to keep provided the right diet and very frequent feedings (4+/daily).

 

[Om84]

Actually, healthy moorish idols are eating machines. That’s where most people screw up…the seem to burn through food like crazy.
Ive kept a few over the past two decades and they have been fairly easy to keep provided the right diet and very frequent feedings (4+/daily).

Yes I have been feeding him >4 times a day lol.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I did PraziPro at the dose suggested on the bottle for one week already. The week before I did General Cure which has praziquantel in it. Does this mean this is treatment failure and the only thing left is Hyposalinity? Are these very infectious if I put the fish in display? The fish appears to be eating well and is unaffected. I have not seen it flash, etc.

Also, if this was black ich shouldn't I see more spots by now? I have had the fish now a little over 2 weeks. I have consistently seen the same 3 small black spots. You can barely make it out in the video when I zoom in.

The worm in the video is a nematode. Prazi does not treat those. Fenbendazole does, but that is difficult to source except through a veterinarian.
Jay

 

[Om84]

The worm in the video is a nematode. Prazi does not treat those. Fenbendazole does, but that is difficult to source except through a veterinarian.
Jay

That’s what I thought. Question is, is it pathogenic and where did it come from? The fish’s GI tract? Would metronidazole treat that?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That’s what I thought. Question is, is it pathogenic and where did it come from? The fish’s GI tract? Would metronidazole treat that?

Oh, I thought you found it in feces or something, it is likely just a free living nematode. Metro won’t treat nematodes though.
Jay

 

[Om84]

Oh, I thought you found it in feces or something, it is likely just a free living nematode. Metro won’t treat nematodes though.
Jay

I found it on the bottom of the QT tank which is just glass. If these nematodes can be seen and are not necessarily pathogenic I won’t do anything about it.

 

[Joj]

I have same exact experience as OP. My 4 has what I thought as black ich but general cure and rounds of prazi doesn’t affect it (treatment with months in between each treatment). Spots don’t grow or shrink or multiply. I just chalk it up to how they are. Other fish doesn’t have those same black pin dot spots that are in the top dorsal fins, which seems to be in same exact location in both side of the fish, or side of the moorish idol (like anenome stings, even though I ndont have any nem or aiptasia). The MI doesn’t scratch or breathe differently. I just let it be since it’s been about 2 years now without any symptoms from these dots

Pictures of MI I see online though don’t display these same dots/spots but my 4 are healthy virocious eaters so I let it be…

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have same exact experience as OP. My 4 has what I thought as black ich but general cure and rounds of prazi doesn’t affect it (treatment with months in between each treatment). Spots don’t grow or shrink or multiply. I just chalk it up to how they are. Other fish doesn’t have those same black pin dot spots that are in the top dorsal fins, which seems to be in same exact location in both side of the fish, or side of the moorish idol (like anenome stings, even though I ndont have any nem or aiptasia). The MI doesn’t scratch or breathe differently. I just let it be since it’s been about 2 years now without any symptoms from these dots

Pictures of MI I see online though don’t display these same dots/spots but my 4 are healthy virocious eaters so I let it be…

Black spots that don't grow in numbers or change in location are very often cysts of digenean trematodes. I ignore those, as they need a secondary or tertiary host in order to complete their life cycle, and it is unlikely that there are any seabirds preying on your fish (grin).

Digeneans are so deeply encysted, that even formalin dips rarely remove them.

Jay