Most of my SPS is dying

[jsker]

I saw this early this afternoon, and wanted to come back to this. You have received some excellent advice!

My only thoughts to add: The intensity of you whites and time. I was running my white for 8 hours at 52% and frying the tip of my arcos and corals. I backed off my whites to 30% at there peak for 5 hours. That made a big difference. I still run my blue and royal blue above 100% for about 4 hours. Treat the system with vitamin C to help the corals heal, and also for general health of the corals and fish

 

[Roggio]

I saw this early this afternoon, and wanted to come back to this. You have received some excellent advice!

My only thoughts to add: The intensity of you whites and time. I was running my white for 8 hours at 52% and frying the tip of my arcos and corals. I backed off my whites to 30% at there peak for 5 hours. That made a big difference. I still run my blue and royal blue above 100% for about 4 hours. Treat the system with vitamin C to help the corals heal, and also for general health of the corals and fish

Thank you!! I'm running the SPS AB+ program on this time. It looks like they run the white at 24% so you're right on with their studies. You know whats funny? I got the guys at @WWC to share their Radion schedule before the Coral Lab came out and there's was extremely similar. It's crazy how ahead of the curve they seem to stay. It's crazy to look at Sanjay's https://www.reef2reef.com/attachments/1-png.376795/

So it was probably the combination of low nutrients and I was blasting them.

 

[McMullen]

Just noticed your profile pic. Wow!
Olympics?

 

[Dogtown]

What is Tampa Bay Reef Keepers?

 

[jsker]

Thank you!! I'm running the SPS AB+ program on this time. It looks like they run the white at 24% so you're right on with their studies. You know whats funny? I got the guys at @WWC to share their Radion schedule before the Coral Lab came out and there's was extremely similar. It's crazy how ahead of the curve they seem to stay. It's crazy to look at Sanjay's https://www.reef2reef.com/attachments/1-png.376795/

So it was probably the combination of low nutrients and I was blasting them.

You are welcome.

Yes I would say frying and starving would be correct here is another little nugget on how @WWC runs there nutrients link

Josh and the crew over @WWC really do know their stuff! I was pretty close to there settings, then during the last live sale WWC through out a nugget with there settings. I had cut back on the intensity back in March, then I change my whites time length because I was have a cyano and diatom out breaks. After cutting back the time, my tank has been consistently been cyano and diatom free.

Give it about two weeks and let us know how things are looking

 

[Roggio]

Just noticed your profile pic. Wow!
Olympics?

I made it to trials for the 50 meter freestyle. I had kind of a come back story where I broke my neck in the military, was paralyzed for 10 months, started training for the Paralympics, recovered too much to qualify, kept training, made it to trials. George Bush and the Obama's were really good to me. Nike also took me under their wing and provided state-of-the-art training and gear. I will forever be grateful to them.

What is Tampa Bay Reef Keepers?

It's a local reef club. We don't have one where I'm at in Orlando so they're my closest club.

You are welcome.

Yes I would say frying and starving would be correct here is another little nugget on how @WWC runs there nutrients link

Josh and the crew over @WWC really do know their stuff! I was pretty close to there settings, then during the last live sale WWC through out a nugget with there settings. I had cut back on the intensity back in March, then I change my whites time length because I was have a cyano and diatom out breaks. After cutting back the time, my tank has been consistently been cyano and diatom free.

Give it about two weeks and let us know how things are looking

Thanks you and for sure. I'm fortunate enough to live near @WWC and their shop is amazing. I've been going there for over eight years.

 

[CindyKz]

I made it to trials for the 50 meter freestyle. I had kind of a come back story where I broke my neck in the military, was paralyzed for 10 months, started training for the Paralympics, recovered too much to qualify, kept training, made it to trials. George Bush and the Obama's were really good to me. Nike also took me under their wing and provided state-of-the-art training and gear. I will forever be grateful to them.

That is an amazing story, thank you for sharing it and thank you for your service.

Cindy (VA RN and veteran, USN)

 

[Dogtown]

I’m wondering if Tampa Bay Reef Keepers is relatively new? I’ve been a member of the Tampa Bay Reef Club as well as am a current member of Reef Visions Community which is also in Tampa.

How did you get your club name badged to your profile? I might want to get a badge for my club. Thanks!

 

[Rakie]

I run my LEDs, both channels, at 100% each. It's not the lights. It's nutrients. Now, will lowering lighting help while nutrients are zero? Probably.

No idea my PAR but lux is 120k

Firstly, I know what you mean and agree -- But for those not as deep in the hobby as most of us yet, I'll explain a bit more in depth.

It's more complicated than that. He is blasting them because his nutrients are low. If they were high, he wouldn't be blasting them. They're kind of a symbiotic thing, Too much light can exist, but with enough nutrients the light can be staved off easily. On the other hand, high nutrients won't cause brown corals unless light is too low.

But we've all "Been Taught" that high light = bleach, high nutrients = browns. Although it's not true in and of itself, it's a combination between Light, Alkalinity, and Nutrients. Furthermore, flow comes into the equation as well causing even more confusion.

This right here, is what is fundamentally wrong with the hobby. People in this day in age, are STILL being told this nonsense, and being led down the wrong path by people who refuse to learn how our systems work.

Thank you!! I'm running the SPS AB+ program on this time. It looks like they run the white at 24% so you're right on with their studies. You know whats funny? I got the guys at @WWC to share their Radion schedule before the Coral Lab came out and there's was extremely similar. It's crazy how ahead of the curve they seem to stay. It's crazy to look at Sanjay's https://www.reef2reef.com/attachments/1-png.376795/

So it was probably the combination of low nutrients and I was blasting them.

Correct. As I said above, you were only 'blasting them' because your nutrients were low. If your nutrients were high, they'd take the light no problem.. You want a long, bright photoperiod? Get some heavy nutrients.

And WWC runs a modifies AB+ program. Basically, their Cool White, Warm White, Green, and Red are 4% lower than AB+

Additionally, I'd say AB+ doesn't look as nice to my eyes on the G4 as it does on the G3 (when it was developed). TO me, the violet is great for the corals but overpowering, and the new red LED diode they use has been beefed up, and is also a hair overpowering.

I've been slowly messing with my lights bit by bit, and seeing what looks more balanced to my eyes and so far Im using a slightly modified WWC preset, with Cool White, and Warm White at 24%, and green/red at 20%.

 

[jsker]

I made it to trials for the 50 meter freestyle. I had kind of a come back story where I broke my neck in the military, was paralyzed for 10 months, started training for the Paralympics, recovered too much to qualify, kept training, made it to trials. George Bush and the Obama's were really good to me. Nike also took me under their wing and provided state-of-the-art training and gear. I will forever be grateful to them.



It's a local reef club. We don't have one where I'm at in Orlando so they're my closest club.



Thanks you and for sure. I'm fortunate enough to live near @WWC and their shop is amazing. I've been going there for over eight years.

Ha, we are neighbors

 

[Roggio]

That is an amazing story, thank you for sharing it and thank you for your service.

Cindy (VA RN and veteran, USN)

Thank you!

I’m wondering if Tampa Bay Reef Keepers is relatively new? I’ve been a member of the Tampa Bay Reef Club as well as am a current member of Reef Visions Community which is also in Tampa.

How did you get your club name badged to your profile? I might want to get a badge for my club. Thanks!

Click on your name on the top right of the screen and go to "Join user Groups."

Firstly, I know what you mean and agree -- But for those not as deep in the hobby as most of us yet, I'll explain a bit more in depth.

It's more complicated than that. He is blasting them because his nutrients are low. If they were high, he wouldn't be blasting them. They're kind of a symbiotic thing, Too much light can exist, but with enough nutrients the light can be staved off easily. On the other hand, high nutrients won't cause brown corals unless light is too low.

But we've all "Been Taught" that high light = bleach, high nutrients = browns. Although it's not true in and of itself, it's a combination between Light, Alkalinity, and Nutrients. Furthermore, flow comes into the equation as well causing even more confusion.

This right here, is what is fundamentally wrong with the hobby. People in this day in age, are STILL being told this nonsense, and being led down the wrong path by people who refuse to learn how our systems work.



Correct. As I said above, you were only 'blasting them' because your nutrients were low. If your nutrients were high, they'd take the light no problem.. You want a long, bright photoperiod? Get some heavy nutrients.

And WWC runs a modifies AB+ program. Basically, their Cool White, Warm White, Green, and Red are 4% lower than AB+

Additionally, I'd say AB+ doesn't look as nice to my eyes on the G4 as it does on the G3 (when it was developed). TO me, the violet is great for the corals but overpowering, and the new red LED diode they use has been beefed up, and is also a hair overpowering.

I've been slowly messing with my lights bit by bit, and seeing what looks more balanced to my eyes and so far Im using a slightly modified WWC preset, with Cool White, and Warm White at 24%, and green/red at 20%.

This is what i've been learning. I struggle to keep my nitrates low but phosphates stay extremely low thanks to the Kessil 380. My skimmer is oversized but still breaking in. I'm going to stop carbon dosing all together and see what happens. What do you think the limit is to what I can let my nitrates climb to?

Ha, we are neighbors

Lets trade some frags! I'm going to Australia in February, I have a one way ticket and don't know when I'll come back. When I do I plan to add a lot of frags. I have a 250 gallon on the other side I plan on loading up too.

 

[Rakie]

This is what i've been learning. I struggle to keep my nitrates low but phosphates stay extremely low thanks to the Kessil 380. My skimmer is oversized but still breaking in. I'm going to stop carbon dosing all together and see what happens. What do you think the limit is to what I can let my nitrates climb to?

I've come to realize I'm waging a one man war against bull**** in this hobby. So here's the truth.

As much as you want. so long as you have the light for it. I run zero chaeto, carbon dosing, none of that junk. I run a skimmer, that's it. Never had any issues.

The most important questions I ask are: Who told you nitrates were bad? Where did you get that information? What proves this theory?

Nobody ever has an answer to those questions. Because it's just some gibberish they heard over, and over, and over. Therefor it must be fact.

My n03 is at 40, my p04 is at 0.80 -- here's a few top down shots I took a few weeks back of my corals. This is what happens when you have high nutrients --

All pictures taken under 6x24 T5 -- 3B+, 2C+, 1 Actinic.

Fox Flame -- Notice how it's red, not a beige-brown?

RR Red Diablo -- Used in my "not all reds are truly red" post -- This is Pink "red"

Red Planet -- Used in same "not all reds are truly red" post -- This is Purple "red"

Grellow Milli -- Wild milli

ASD Rainbow Milli -- Looks like a sunset, but it's direct from ASD.

Orange/Peach/Green milli 2" off sandbed front of tank -- Low light, high nutrients, not brown.

FTS As of right now -- It's impossible to make all the colors show with my camera. It only shines when I'm picturing one coral individually.

So here I am with high nutrients, actual colors that aren't variants of Tan or Pale, and running a system which the hive mind says is guaranteed to fail because nutrients are the devil.

My club president often says "Beware of advice from those unwilling to show the fruits of their labor" -- Well, all the time people with nothing worth showing tell you what you should be doing. Here I am, doing "everything wrong".

I'm not saying "blindly agree with me, because It works for me, therefor i'm right" -- I'm saying be open minded. because when I was following the "tried and true" advice I had issues. When I applied some common sense and started doing things my way, everything flourished.

 

[BigJohnny]

I've come to realize I'm waging a one man war against bull**** in this hobby. So here's the truth.

As much as you want. so long as you have the light for it. I run zero chaeto, carbon dosing, none of that junk. I run a skimmer, that's it. Never had any issues.

The most important questions I ask are: Who told you nitrates were bad? Where did you get that information? What proves this theory?

Nobody ever has an answer to those questions. Because it's just some gibberish they heard over, and over, and over. Therefor it must be fact.

My n03 is at 40, my p04 is at 0.80 -- here's a few top down shots I took a few weeks back of my corals. This is what happens when you have high nutrients --

All pictures taken under 6x24 T5 -- 3B+, 2C+, 1 Actinic.

Fox Flame -- Notice how it's red, not a beige-brown?

RR Red Diablo -- Used in my "not all reds are truly red" post -- This is Pink "red"

Red Planet -- Used in same "not all reds are truly red" post -- This is Purple "red"

Grellow Milli -- Wild milli

ASD Rainbow Milli -- Looks like a sunset, but it's direct from ASD.

Orange/Peach/Green milli 2" off sandbed front of tank -- Low light, high nutrients, not brown.

FTS As of right now -- It's impossible to make all the colors show with my camera. It only shines when I'm picturing one coral individually.

So here I am with high nutrients, actual colors that aren't variants of Tan or Pale, and running a system which the hive mind says is guaranteed to fail because nutrients are the devil.

My club president often says "Beware of advice from those unwilling to show the fruits of their labor" -- Well, all the time people with nothing worth showing tell you what you should be doing. Here I am, doing "everything wrong".

I'm not saying "blindly agree with me, because It works for me, therefor i'm right" -- I'm saying be open minded. because when I was following the "tried and true" advice I had issues. When I applied some common sense and started doing things my way, everything flourished.

What's your photo period? 2 bulbs and all 6?

 

[Rakie]

13 hours two bulbs, 11 hours all 6 -- I'm using an XR30 now, modified WWC spectrum with a 13 hour photoperiod.

 

[BigJohnny]

13 hours two bulbs, 11 hours all 6 -- I'm using an XR30 now, modified WWC spectrum with a 13 hour photoperiod.

dang what par for an 11 hr peak, that's nuts. Why the switch to radions?

 

[Rakie]

Radions are at 55% intensity 12" off the water, acclimating up to 75% intensity total. Maybe higher as time goes on, we'll see. Full 55% power is 9 hours, LONG 3 hour ramp down, 1 hour ramp up, 13 hour photoperiod.

Radions when used properly are better. There's a reason the best coral sellers use LED's. It's not to save money, it's not to achieve slower growth, or bad colors. It's because when properly used it's the best single lighting source. Way back in ye olden times, LED's weren't plug and play. Today they are. Lots of reefers can improve their coral health by plugging in radions and using an AB+ program, or the WWC program. Today, it really is that simple.

The two other protips are height and number of fixtures -- While EcoTech says to put them only 8" off the water, nobody with great results does that. Look at any wholesaler, WWC, local coral wholesalers, they keep them 2' off the water. Minimum, you want them abut 12" off the water. Most in my club run their lights 12"+ over the water. Lastly, while the G4 has improved significantly, I honestly believe if you choose to have them closer to the water, you need to consider each Radion will only light a 2x1' section. For my tank, I think two XR30 G4's would be ideal, I can get by with 1 of course, but honestly the Radion would be vastly improved if it had more pucks at lower power -- But that's a whole different subject.

Most every member of my club has moved from T5 or Halide (or both), to LED, and saw dramatic improvements in color, growth, coral structure, and overall tank health.

After only 10 days running the Radion i'm seeing color improvements in most my corals, and while some have not improved, zero of them have shown negative results.

 

[BigJohnny]

Radions are at 55% intensity 12" off the water, acclimating up to 75% intensity total. Maybe higher as time goes on, we'll see. Full 55% power is 9 hours, LONG 3 hour ramp down, 1 hour ramp up, 13 hour photoperiod.

Radions when used properly are better. There's a reason the best coral sellers use LED's. It's not to save money, it's not to achieve slower growth, or bad colors. It's because when properly used it's the best single lighting source. Way back in ye olden times, LED's weren't plug and play. Today they are. Lots of reefers can improve their coral health by plugging in radions and using an AB+ program, or the WWC program. Today, it really is that simple.

The two other protips are height and number of fixtures -- While EcoTech says to put them only 8" off the water, nobody with great results does that. Look at any wholesaler, WWC, local coral wholesalers, they keep them 2' off the water. Minimum, you want them abut 12" off the water. Most in my club run their lights 12"+ over the water. Lastly, while the G4 has improved significantly, I honestly believe if you choose to have them closer to the water, you need to consider each Radion will only light a 2x1' section. For my tank, I think two XR30 G4's would be ideal, I can get by with 1 of course, but honestly the Radion would be vastly improved if it had more pucks at lower power -- But that's a whole different subject.

Most every member of my club has moved from T5 or Halide (or both), to LED, and saw dramatic improvements in color, growth, coral structure, and overall tank health.

After only 10 days running the Radion i'm seeing color improvements in most my corals, and while some have not improved, zero of them have shown negative results.

What par were your corals getting during the 11 hour peak with your t5s?

 

[Rakie]

What par were your corals getting during the 11 hour peak with your t5s?

No par meter -- Who knows.

 

[Roggio]

So I stopped dosing vodka and I've done 50 gallon water changes every day for the last four days (200g total) and some corals are looking better. Unfortunately my nitrate is off the charts 50+ now and my phosphate is .09. I have an oversized skimmer, tons of biomedia, and a huge fuge with a 380. I don't get how that happens although I have been doing water changes everyday. I'm honestly at my wits end and ready to just let my tank do what it wants. My fish wont die and most of my coral is dead or dying. I have too many large fish that must have carbon dosing to keep the levels where they need to be to grow coral. Very easily that is thrown off and I'm out hundreds of dollars in Coral that's been growing for months. It's just a constant emotional struggle watching my hard work and money die. I'm ready to walk away.

 

[DeniseAndy]

I have not run sps for some time now, but when I did, I ran a protein skimmer and calcium reactor. They did fine for years. I did not have that fish load though. Tangs can get pretty dirty. I see some frags are showing signs of algae on the tips. That means that algae is more dominant there and that can be a problem. Algae can take over the corals and prevent growth. Love/hate deal with algae and coral.

Personally, I would run an algae scrubber to get the algae in the correct place (off the corals and rocks) and keep your parameters stable as you can. I unfortunately have no experience with LEDS (so useless there). I do not do any dosing or other equipment and my sps was growing and amazing (till I had an alk incident along with bacterial infection).

We all get down sometimes. Maybe you could think about trying some of the more forgiving corals for a bit to help get you more comfortable with stability and enjoying yourself. Sometimes, I think we forget this is suppose to be fun and enjoyable.

Great job at Olympics and thanks for your service. Hang in there. (where is the little kitty poster?)