My 75G starfire display refugium feeding by gravity my 150G starfire reef tank build up

[basile]

Woot! Glad to see you back!!

Glad to see things are turning around!

YES!! Great news! I'm happy things are looking up for you. I have missed the Borg aquarium!

Woot! Glad to see you back!!

Thanks guys, still on my last case . So far won 50 K out of it and a settlement that'll put me back on my feet. It'll all be decided in January. So now i'm cleaning up the tank in the hopes that everything gets running this spring. Lots of prep to do kept all my hardware lol, everything was new so... I'll be using the Prodibio Bioptim and biostartup products they're awesome. It made my tank much more receptive to early bioload. You basically get a one year old tank in a matter of weeks. That's what i used the last time .

I'll be commenting these next weeks on what i'll do and wont anymore from my experiences with the last operation lol. So see ya soon.

 

[basile]

One of my success and failure at the same time was, the 12 hour cycle i put my skimmer on for helping my 13 sponges have better nutrients . It worked very well plus my zoos loved it too. HOWEVER; the added particles in the water column favored aiptasia developments, which became a problem.

Even with all the methods of getting rid of them failed. Laser, chemicals, even the filefish who's suppose to like them failed. One reason the filefish who was a know eater, i didn't buy just a filefish i bought a known Killer lol.

One of the reason for that was the filefish found much better morsels in the tank and was quite happy without the aiptasia diet.So in the next tank i don't think of stopping my skimmer therefore will have less sponges if any.

This concludes my observation for the day.

 

[Tahoe61]

^ Beautiful image and subject.

Peppermint work for me, you have to avoid fish like Hawks, Royal Grammas, or Dotty backs.

 

[basile]

Today i'll talk about sand, and the ever controversial cleaning vs leaving it alone.

During my system operation i've observed 2 phenomenon. First the biodiversity of an undisturbed stable sand and the effects of its biodegradable powers.

Among's the bacteria who are visible by the different shades of color and its distribution pattern; lives an acute population of pods, worms(not bristle worms), emerging snails(hundreds of babies) who are ready to devour any morsel left behind. In fact my sand was so alive it damaged a gorgonian i had, who had fell on its side touching the sand. The little critter ate its tender flesh so fast that it was denude right to the stems in a matter of minutes.

You can see on these image the Cirratulid worm a super detritus eater. many of the pockets of gases including oxygen produced by the bacterial activity. Within these small pockets also live pods, and othe critter that have yet to identify really. You can check my microscope video of my sand if you like.



So why not vacuum ever so often. First i didn't want to loose the gas pockets full of micro-organism helping in the clean up and denitrification of the sand and water. And why loose all the micro-organism population and flush it down the drain, when they're doing their stuff.

Once i disturbed a corner of my tank and look at how long it would take to rebuild the same structures as before. It took 3 weeks for the gas pockets to return, not as big mind you but to start being noticeable. As for the rest of the worm 2 months to repopulate their dwelings. And how many coutless snail did i loose who knows. One corner didn't make an impact on my system but i can imagine that the whole sand bed at once could send my chemistry into a spike in gases, and nutrients all over.

So a weekly or monthly vacuuming destroy an important part of the filtration and ecosystem of a tank. Can it be done once a year and by stages and on different areas of the tank once a year; i suppose so in fact it may be a solution to other problems. I don't know which one yet.

 

[gettaReef]

How deep of a sandbed did you have, or do you recommend having? In my first system I used to have about 1.5inch sandbed. When I disturbed it an enormous amount of detritus floated out so I began to siphon portions when doing weekly water changes; there was so much detritus when siphoning the water was nearly black. I thought that couldn't be good for the system so I changed to a barebottom and have done that ever since. I miss the sand look so am looking into having one again but don't want it to be a detritus trap. Maybe I didn't have enough flow, or maybe the powerheads were not placed well? I also feed less now and have a faster return (return pump is stronger). Any advice? Thx

 

[basile]

How deep of a sandbed did you have, or do you recommend having? In my first system I used to have about 1.5inch sandbed. When I disturbed it an enormous amount of detritus floated out so I began to siphon portions when doing weekly water changes; there was so much detritus when siphoning the water was nearly black. I thought that couldn't be good for the system so I changed to a barebottom and have done that ever since. I miss the sand look so am looking into having one again but don't want it to be a detritus trap. Maybe I didn't have enough flow, or maybe the powerheads were not placed well? I also feed less now and have a faster return (return pump is stronger). Any advice? Thx

Well it depends how you see your tank. I for one don't see at a pool that has to have a clean bottom free of impurities. I see it as a swamp with all the bugs that filter a river, with its biological potential. I had a 2 1/2 inch sand bed. No more to avoid a deep sand bed disaster.

I had a blenny that would disturb his little area, no consequences on the whole. The colors on the side of the tank gives you an indication of the work done by bacteria plus if you have a live sand.

Albert Theil that i met a few times told me that most people have a dead sand bed and it becomes a detritus trap because they don't let the micro-organisms do their thing. Which takes some time. And their will always be detritus because the critters needs it to survive. YOU don't live in the tank but your little critters do and need a place to reproduce and feed. Bacteria in your sand feeds a lot of critter not always visible but essential to a healthy system. Its full of bacteria and its good, but if you constantly disturb their environment they don't have time to rebuild their homes and environment to do their job.

Like i said maybe once a year it could be done by small patches at a time and over a few months period But i've yet to determine if its warranted. Their's far more advantages to have a sand bed full of life than one devoided of it and then becoming a trap like you say.

 

[gettaReef]

Yeah, I'm sure me disturbing/siphoning the sand never gave the life in there a real chance. When I set this system I have up (93gal cube), I'll go with a 2-2.5 inch live sandbed. I really like the pool vs swamp analogy, pretty right on. Thanks for the info

 

[basile]

My experiences with the infamous sea urchins.

For starters they're wonderful algae eaters, they can't get enough of it.

So the first tip i can give if you don't have a a tank 65 G and more they'll starve unless you fed them.
They forage for food that means they don't see where they are or spot a great morsel 2 inch from them.

If they're hungry they move everything in the tank; you'd move the fridge too to look behind if you where starving too.
That's another sign of starvation.Like all animals the least effort is the best to survive, but if the spend energy moving thing around;they're starving.

I had a Black Hatpin Urchin (Echinothrix diadema )



Great to have but its like a bear it eats and eats and eats. You HAVE to feed it or it starts to loose its spines which is a bad sign. It looses occasionally some due to friction with the rocks and its environment but when loosing them daily, no.

This is your best bet;



Its his natural food. And you'll be surprise how many of your Clean up crew will also benefit. (ITS ABSOLUTELY FALSE TO SAY; IF YOU FEED YOUR BOTTOM DWELLERS THEY'LL STOP CLEANING THE TANK)
I fed mine and in return they started to reproduce and i had hundreds of snails and critters in the sand cleaning. I didn't buy any Clean up crew critters for 2 years after my initial C.U.C.(Clean Up Crew).

I had people asking me if salted kelp is good for them. First the kelp is in its own salt that's the white powder that comes with it. In the bag the dried kelp produce salt when its dried. So no worries.

The kelp leaf can last a week at first, because its big thick and it takes time for your CUC to eat it, and no its doesn't change your nitrate and so on. Later in the months to come my CUC would eat it up in 2 days tops. That's a good sign, you have a healthy and populated sand with critters.

this is another good food



if i take so much time talking about the CUC its because its a subject that is rarely taken seriously. The mentality is ;Oh i'll buy more next month. Its a forgotten part of the hobby, or more accurately neglected and all for the wrong reasons. Because its relatively cheap to replace......

A live sand is very important part of the filtration system otherwise why have sand at all if you're not to populate it......

A live sand full of life and filtering worms:

These conch are mating and i got plenty of little replacements. The conch are the best after the urchins for algae cleaning. One per 50 G is enough other wise it can starve.....kelp leafs again can save them. By the way its the only one i know who eats cyano bacteria

Other snails matting

The problem with the long spine urchins is that if you have a made up wall with foam( greatstuff)

The urchins will eat it loose its spines and die, they get slowly poisoned by it .

The tuxedo urchin on the other hand is easier to content, Its more flexible it'll need some TLC with kelp leaves for supplement.( but being smaller with a smaller mouth, the kelp needs to soften so after the leaf has been in the water all night put you urchin directly on it. You wont see patches of eaten kelp, because kelp is very thick and the urchins eats by layers. But it will eat.

 

[Reefing Madness]

 

[basile]

To continue on the CUC; Clean Up Crew, the most efficient detritus not algae detritus eater are the Babylonia Snail. Big, very hardy and fun to watch as they're racing toward that piece of food that just fell on the bottom.

They also multiply if you feed enough, i had tons hundreds small babies that roamed the sand, so several generations to replace my original ones, but they're long life ones, 2 years + for snails . You don't need that much because they're pigs and eat a lot. more food means they'll reproduce and that's what you want, instead of buying every 3-6 months for new ones.

They're similar to the nassarius

Who are not quite as big and doesn't have those blotchy spots. Its actually one of their many names Blotch snails=Babylone snails

One of the detritus least useful is the Brittle star or Serpent Seastar

See that nice big hole, when i say least useful it means that it will eat and then digest for days if not a week before eating again, I was always intrigue by the sheer numbers we see them in the ocean and living together, in seem relative harmony. Then researching i found the why so many can coexist so harmoniously together. eating and having days to digest, they're aren't really in competition.

I also means you can have several ones in your tank and they'll be fine, BUT; as efficiency goes to help you clean the tank bottom; better leave it to the snails like i said the most efficient at it, but still interesting to have as diversity. I had 7 in my 150 G tank. But again feeding them helps and they'll reproduce as well.

Another usefull guy is the cuke, sea cucumber.

Mine was big and a problem. I found out that before they split, which its one way they multiply; they need to beef up their bodies to survive while a new mouth or anal track is being formed after the split. They need it because that process can take several weeks.

And in my case the huge cuke was a problem because it took him a year just to beef up and the split in 3, so that meant the mid section had a mouth and the anal track to replace.One of the segment died with no ill affect on my tank by the way; A huge fear by many who don't risk this wonderful cleaning machine.The other 2 survived very well.

It processes sand like the earth worms, it transforms poop and what ever else it eats in the sand into its primary elements and helps redirect resources in your tank. It cleans your sand like no other.

The risk are minimal if you have a big enough tank because the cuke need sand to clean and enough to survive. Forget the 50G tank for a cuke, depending on the size or both cukes and tank you need a heavy bioload to keep this one alive and to split even.

 

[Zoaeasy]

Just read your whole thread and must say one of the best I've read on this forum so far. Glad to hear you are getting back on your feet. Your system was just amazing. I vote you rebuild what you had before. Are you happy with the Concept aquariums?
They are local for me and I am planning a 150 gallon peninsula and plan on using them.

 

[basile]

Just read your whole thread and must say one of the best I've read on this forum so far. Glad to hear you are getting back on your feet. Your system was just amazing. I vote you rebuild what you had before. Are you happy with the Concept aquariums?
They are local for me and I am planning a 150 gallon peninsula and plan on using them.

Thanks for the kind words. I'll probably go for the same thing with a few adjustments yes.

Concept aquariums where amazing with their service and great expertise. And their product excellent top grade, everybody who visited me noticed the quality workmanship. They where very helpful and accommodating.

 

[basile]

One of my least successful endeavor was starfishes. Blue, red, orange green didn't matter which species , i never could keep them more than a month. I have no idea why either parameters where normal, most of them got diseases; they melted , shred, loose limbs, so in that instance i'm no reference for the husbandry of star fish.

This basket seastar was doomed from the start, i maybe no reference for any starfish however, its clearly an impossible task to keep one alive for very long, from what i've red so far.

The same goes for my late feather star which we should all refrain from buying to stop the onslaught of these wonderful but only wild animals. My righteous teaching for the day, lol. But seriously they have no life in our tanks.

Same happened to this poor blue star, very fragile and died of infection

This seemingly perfect star is actually sick you can see the little bubble or what appear as bubble on it , but i was told that this is a common disease

 

[basile]

One strategy that was very successful was the absence of any hermits in my tanks.

I'd been watching those in my previous tanks and found them more trouble than most cuc. They're opportunistic and aggressive nature made them irrelevant to a tank.

Most will eat your other clean up crews, snails and what not and then each other which makes them a costly addition to a tank. In the 2 1/2 year i've operated my tank i've never had to add any cuc of any kind since all where different species of snails, urchins, cukes, and some emerald crabs doing a better job.

Yes the emerald crabs never went after my other cuc in the tank. in fact they always seem to die before any other cuc's and its the only ones i had to replace.

So my best cuc is made almost exclusively of different snails and a few urchins and a cuke.

 

[basile]

My best additions to my system hands down was my "home made" wave box and the external coast to coast.

In the trade, wave box are $500+ http://www.reefsupplies.ca/online-store/TUNZE-Comline-Wavebox-6208.html as an example.

So decided that since my tank was being custom made i'd have a custom made wave box to avoid the overpriced thing. Turns out the custom glass box cost $25 to make and add on the side; outside the tank so not to loose any footprint.

You can see the little box outside the tank.


I just added a pump with control that cost me $295. a saving of about $300.

The thing works like a charm.

The coast to coast was also a master stroke. It provided a massive help to my skimmer who was already a good bet.Both the reef tank and refugium had one installed.

Also made of glass i insisted to be external to again not claim any footprint in the tank and didn't interfered with the wave generating box.

I'm stating that a custom made tank is far more reliable than the of the shelf. Two of my friends had Marineland tanks that leaked twice. The seals they have are very thin and substandard it would seem.

 

[basile]

One of the design aspect i've no idea if it did any good or not is the higher refugium with a connection to the reef tank.

You can see the bulkhead position on the left side of the tank. That dump directly into the reef.

You can see here the refugium separation and its other components and the connection on its left side.

The plan was to collect with the bulkhead and tube the pods from 2 inch bellow the surface, so not to skim the surface of the refugium into the reef. Collecting them without them going through machinery, so by gravity hence the higher position of my refugium.

Here the connecting tube going into the reef

So did it work; i have no ideal if all that trouble paid off.

What do you think, let me know in your comment. Was it worth all that fuss lol.

 

[basile]

Ok guys i need a few advice about how to restart my system.

First; the background of my tank, wasn't remove at all when i shut it down. I cleaned it as best as i could, but as you can see its a pretty complex of nooks and crannies in there, its ceramic and its stuck to the back; it can't be removed for further cleaning.(this is the wall before it was used; and after i've cleaned it the best i could)

Which brings me to ask; what would you think would be the best way to clean that wall before i commit to restarting the tank.

Some suggested i just fill it with Ro water and let a couple of weeks go by to get the loose particles off before i fill it with salt water. But my skimmer would be ineffective to remove particles stuck to the wall.



Since i can operate the 2 tanks independently even if they share the same sump. This the refugium; awful isn't .

I didn't clean it yet, didn't have the heart for it. Now a lot of the dead algae remains but dried out. What would you suggest. For the sand i'll replace it with new one.

All suggestion are appreciated, don't yell at me for the sorry state of the fuge i know.....lol.

 

[basile]

I feel the force flowing into the tank today; she's filling up nicely with tap water, for the rinsing and letting all those debris loosening up from the walls and then in a week or so i'll empty it to add the sand( i have all week to finish rinsing that sucker) and she'l be refilled with RO to restart the cycling for the next few months. Its 15 min and we're at 75 gallons already. Which mean that i use 150 gallons when i take my shower LOL.

Its funny i'm more nervous filling it up this time than when i got the tank and did it for the first time. I'm worried about the seals. For some reasons.

 

[gettaReef]

I'd suggest first removing all the sand, then filling the aquarium with a mix of water and vinegar, turn on some powerheads to get the flow going, and let it do that for a few hours/days. Then scrub the rocks, especially in the spots where there is still algae crud. Then rinse, rinse, rinse! I think the vinegar will be super helpful in getting out stubborn algae spots.

 

[ssunthar]

One strategy that was very successful was the absence of any hermits in my tanks.

I'd been watching those in my previous tanks and found them more trouble than most cuc. They're opportunistic and aggressive nature made them irrelevant to a tank.

Most will eat your other clean up crews, snails and what not and then each other which makes them a costly addition to a tank. In the 2 1/2 year i've operated my tank i've never had to add any cuc of any kind since all where different species of snails, urchins, cukes, and some emerald crabs doing a better job.

Yes the emerald crabs never went after my other cuc in the tank. in fact they always seem to die before any other cuc's and its the only ones i had to replace.

So my best cuc is made almost exclusively of different snails and a few urchins and a cuke.

Amazing journey @basile.. enjoyed every bit of it and learned tons of tips and tricks along the way. Very interested and excited to know how gorgeous your reef is looking now. Thanks.