My plan for adding kalkwasser and freshwater. Would this work?

[Swingline77]

I have a solution that should allow me to address pH, alkalinity, Ca, and salinity all together.

I’m addressing all of this together since I’m planning to use at least some automatic dosing that will impact all three. I currently live in a location that has well water. I tested it a while ago with an API kit, and found that it corresponds to the highest level measured by the kit. For all I know, it might be off the chart. I don’t have hard water, it’s probably “medium” water. I’d rather not have to use RO water, but will if necessary. Since Ca usually needs to be added, I wonder if I should be happy that I have lots of Ca in the tap water, and use it as is.

My plan is as follows: I will have a float switch that controls the addition of kalkwasser and freshwater simultaneously and with different peristaltic pumps. I will have the kalkwasser on a Milwaukee pH controller. So, if the system needs more water, both the kalkwasser and freshwater will be simultaneously added. If the system needs water, but the pH is getting too high, the kalkwasser peristaltic pump will turn off, and only the freshwater will be added.

This system will not work calcium is not being absorbed quickly enough. This might be a real problem, since I will have a lightly stocked tank to start out. If this is a problem, I’d guess my solution would be to stop using kalkwasser, and automatically add a kalk supplement mixed with water, so that I can add calcium separately once per day.

If I need more calcium than what is provided by the kalkwasser, I can add it separately. I’ve seen calcium supplements that contain strontium. Would using this be OK, since I’m not planning to test for strontium?

This setup should keep pH and salinity at the right levels. I can calibrate the Milwaukee probe with a standard periodically

“Red Sea” makes a test pack called “foundation pro”. that tests for Ca, Alk, and Mg. It seems like it’s a good price. Should I just use this? I happen to own an old spectrophotometer that was probably made in the 60s or 70s that I picked up at a tag sale for like $20. I could use the spectrophotometer for all of these parameters. Would it be worth it, or wouldn't I need that level of accuracy?

Thanks.

 

[Diesel]

Hmmmm, if you ask me you have a lot Stuff going on to be safe.
I need to get drunk in order to put this in practice.

 

[Swingline77]

It's frustrating not to be able to edit posts after they have been up for more than a few minutes. The last sentence in paragraph four should read, "If this is a problem, I’d guess my solution would be to stop using kalkwasser, and automatically add an alk supplement mixed with water, so that I can add calcium separately once per day."

 

[Diesel]

You have unlimited edit when you become a member .
Besides the edit you can win supporting members give way prices as a RODI setup, or a stand alone dosing system, maybe a full line of Readsea test kits..... who knows

 

[Diesel]

It's frustrating not to be able to edit posts after they have been up for more than a few minutes. The last sentence in paragraph four should read, "If this is a problem, I’d guess my solution would be to stop using kalkwasser, and automatically add an alk supplement mixed with water, so that I can add calcium separately once per day."

What is you consumption rate over a period of 24hrs on your setup?

 

[Swingline77]

What is you consumption rate over a period of 24hrs on your setup?

I have no idea. The tank hasn't been set up yet. What do you mean "become a member". I already have a user name and password. Is there some sort of "premium" membership?

 

[Diesel]

I have no idea. The tank hasn't been set up yet. What do you mean "become a member". I already have a user name and password. Is there some sort of "premium" membership?

Yes there is.
Supporting members get it all, partner members getting even more.

 

[Swingline77]

good to know. thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I would not control limewater dosing by pH, although a very high pH shut off is fine. Say 8.6.

The risk is that alkalinity may get too high.

Also, limewater alone adds slightly more calcium than alk relative to demand, so if there is also calcium in your fresh water top off, that may be a problem longer term (I used a low calcium salt mix to account for that).

The well water has a lot more than calcium. I would not use it without a detailed ICP test.

 

[dimidragos]

I would not control limewater dosing by pH, although a very high pH shut off is fine. Say 8.6.

The risk is that alkalinity may get too high.

Also, limewater alone adds slightly more calcium than alk relative to demand, so if there is also calcium in your fresh water top off, that may be a problem longer term (I used a low calcium salt mix to account for that).

The well water has a lot more than calcium. I would not use it without a detailed ICP test.

Hello, but useing a Kalkwasser mixer will rise alkalnity and Ph ?? Or Ph mostly?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hello, but useing a Kalkwasser mixer will rise alkalnity and Ph ?? Or Ph mostly?

It raises pH (temporarily), alkalinity, and calcium.

Adding 1.25% of the tank volume in saturated limewater will raise alk by 0.5 meq/L (1.4 dKH), calcium by 10 ppm, and pH by about 0.6 pH units (exact value depends on the alkalinity; pH will begin to drop back as the tank sucks in CO2).

 

[dimidragos]

It raises pH (temporarily), alkalinity, and calcium.

Adding 1.25% of the tank volume in saturated limewater will raise alk by 0.5 meq/L (1.4 dKH), calcium by 10 ppm, and pH by about 0.6 pH units (exact value depends on the alkalinity; pH will begin to drop back as the tank sucks in CO2).

Thank's a lot that's a brilliant information for me, maybe many people know that but i didn't. Acording to my calculation i need about 0,12 meq/l. I can estimate the volume of my system around 530 liter. That means i need 6,625 liter per day if i want to rise alk with 1.4Kh. i must rise with max 0.12 according with my calculation. If i'm not wrong that means 1,6 liter per day.
I plan to use a Deltec KM500 with peri pump . I will use RO water from ATO tank. This is the mixer:

https://www.theaquariumsolution.com/product/3028/83

Now if i dont ask to much, how much kalkvaser i must add to the mixer and how can i know when to add more.

Thanks a lot, i don't have words for what you do here for us!!! and not only here

 

[Swingline77]

I have a bit of confusion with regard to all this. My understanding is that kalkwasser shouldn't be used as a primary means of raising pH of a tank, as doing so will result in an excess of alkalinity (as pointed out by Randy). It seems that tanks tend to drift a little low in pH rather than a little high, and that kalkwasser raises pH is just a nice coincidence. The real value of kalkwasser is in raising Ca and Alk levels. My understanding is that due to the nature of Ca ions in solution, and their relative abundance and affinity toward precipitation in relation to CO3, it's far harder to have Ca concentrations go out of range than it is to have CO3 levels go out of range.

When adding kalkwasser to freshwater to top off a tank, I understand the goal of adjusting the concentration of kalkwasser. It's my understanding that the concentration is adjusted so that when the amount of water sufficient to replenish that which is lost via evaporation is replenished, approximately the right amount of kalkwasser will be added to the tank. What I don't understand about this is that it seems that evaporation rates would fluctuate day to day. It seems that it would be easier to divorce the addition of kalkwasser from the addition of freshwater. Such a method of doing this might be to have two systems running at once: a passive drip of kalkwasser into a tank while a seperate pump doses freshwater under the control of a float switch. The one problem I can see with this approach is that people seem to have a difficult time maintaining sufficient alkalinity, and dose all the kalkwasser that they can with an ATO.

So, maybe it would be best to add kalkwasser in one of two ways, depending on hom much alkalinity I find that I need to add to the system. If I don't need to add that much alkalinity relative to the volume of total fresh water that I need to add, maybe having a passive kalkwasser drip coupled with an active ATO turned off by a float switch would be appropriate. If I'm having trouble keeping up with alkalinity demands, maybe simply adding freshwater saturated with kalkwasser in the ATO is the way to go. What do you think?

I wouldn't know what to do in this case if alkalinity is still below optimal. I guess I'd have to slowly add it by hand, or set up another drip just to add concentrated alc.

Similarly, if the ATO filled with kalkwasser isn't adding sufficient calcium, perhaps I'll just need to add calcium by hand once per day.

I plan to have fresh air blown in from outside over the surface of the water. Doing this, I don't think that I'll have pH issues. If I do, I guess I'll address them by adding an inorganic acid or base.

Actually, I hope that I don't have to address any/all of these parameters on a daily basis. I've heard of most people checking once per week, but perhaps I'll need to do this more frequently when just getting started.

I plan to check magnesium levels, and add supplementation when appropriate.

By the way, I'd like to have an accurate idea of how much Ca I'm adding to the system. It's my understanding that kalkwasser reaches a point of supersaturation when it exceeds approx. 14 g/L water. This means, considering the molar mass of CaCO3 is 100.09 g/mol, and the atomic mass of Ca is 40.078, that the "clear" fraction of kalkwasser will contain 5.6 g Ca/L. If all this is correct, will this mean that there will be a "linear"* relationship between decreasing amounts of kalk added to freshwater (in order to make kalkwasser) and the mass of Ca in the kalkwasser? I.e., If I were to take the clear fraction of kalkwasser, and dilute it by adding an equal volume of fresh water, would I then end up with kalkwasser that contains 5.6 g Ca per liter, divided by two, equaling 2.8 g Ca per liter?

* I put linear in quotation marks since even if the relationship is roughly linear, I'm sure it won't be completely so as a result of interaction with other ions, etc.

Wow! I know this is a lot, but once I understand this, I should be much closer to setting up my tank. Thanks.

 

[Diesel]

Sometimes ppl can over do it in this hobby.
I will follow this with my eagle eyes.

 

[Swingline77]

By the way, the reason I want to know Ca levels is for dosing Sr.

 

[biophilia]

I agree that trying to chase pH with kalkwasser addition is probably going to cause more harm than good. A bit of shift in pH over the course of a day isn’t really cause for concern unless you’re falling below 7.8 or so. I’ve had a lot of success with just figuring out my daily kalkwasser needs, splitting it up, and dosing it once per hour with a peristaltic pump. You can always fine tune the balance between alk and pH this way by dosing slightly more some hours and less during others (I dose 4mL per hour at night and 7mL/hour during lights on for example). I have my kalk concentration adjusted so that the daily kalk needs fulfill about 50% of the freshwater top-off requirements and the remainder is handled by an ATO with just RODI. That way evaporation doesn’t alter kalk dosing rates.

 

[Swingline77]

Biophilia, I've decided that I'll add freshwater and kalkwasser separately. For now, I'll have a passive steady drip of kalkwasser 24/7.

I'd like to hear what Randy has to say about estimating the addition of Ca by my calculation method.

I don't know what I'll do for pH yet.