My Prostar Rimless 200 V2 build

[Uncle99]

That's how the tank came but I converted it over as I wanted an emergency drain.
I was initially going to just go Herbie setup but modified it to go with a bean animal so I can get more flow than a single 3/4 inch drain can provide.. I ran the return external and use the 3 3/4 inch bulkheads for the drain.

The tank has an “emergency” drain (of sorts). Instead of one siphon, there’s 2.....just at the same height.So if either siphon gets fully or partially plugged, the other can handle the flow.

When it’s setup like this, it won’t matter if the box was not sealed at the bottom because when the pump stops, only 1/4” of tank volume can go back to sump at the most.

I’ve been pushing 800gph through this system, that’s 4x which is plenty for a 165g tank, I get about 10 gallons back into my 40g sump which it can easily handle.

What’s confusing me is pipe size.
I have 2-1” overflows.......so 2” of total overflow.
I have 1-3/4” return..........so only 3/4” of return.

You have all three same size at 3/4”.....now that’s weird...

 

[gfish]

The tank has an “emergency” drain (of sorts). Instead of one siphon, there’s 2.....just at the same height.So if either siphon gets fully or partially plugged, the other can handle the flow.

When it’s setup like this, it won’t matter if the box was not sealed at the bottom because when the pump stops, only 1/4” of tank volume can go back to sump at the most.

I’ve been pushing 800gph through this system, that’s 4x which is plenty for a 165g tank, I get about 10 gallons back into my 40g sump which it can easily handle.

What’s confusing me is pipe size.
I have 2-1” overflows.......so 2” of total overflow.
I have 1-3/4” return..........so only 3/4” of return.

You have all three same size at 3/4”.....now that’s weird...

You really don't have 1" bulkheads.. .. your PVC is large for the drain size but they go into a reducer at the bulkheads that are 3/4".. well they are metric but 3/4" size bulkheads.. all 3. The return is the same size as the drain... Trust me I changed them out and that's when I found out that they were reduced.. you can only get flow equal to your smallest diameter which is the bulkhead..

The reason they are so large in the overflow is to make it as quiet as possible.

For three size tank.. a single 3/4 inch bulkhead in a Herbie style would only give me flow of around 3x to 4x max wide open and my limit.. I didn't want that restriction if I wanted to have more like 5x flow.. that is when I decided to go with bean animal so I could get more flow if I needed..

Long story and a really tough job of converting those bulkheads to 3/4 inch..

 

[flyfisher2]

I'm going to try like you suggested.

I'm going to put 2 elbows on the main siphon to try and prevent air and raise the height to just below the air vent drain.. if that works ok and silent then I'll be ok with it.. I really don't have any other options I don't think I'd ever be able to have confidence in the overflow not leaking after today..

Thank you for the idea. I guess I just didn't think about doing that because originally I was going to just go Herbie style drain so my main siphon was pretty low from water height.

Glad to help, I think it'll be fine once you arrive at the the proper level in the sump. I would definitely use a coupling and cut the length of the pvc down a little at a time until you get the desired levels and then let it sit that way a couple days prior to gluing. Not sure I would glue it myself. The coupling itself might be enough as there is no pressure up top.

 

[gfish]

Glad to help, I think it'll be fine once you arrive at the the proper level in the sump. I would definitely use a coupling and cut the length of the pvc down a little at a time until you get the desired levels and then let it sit that way a couple days prior to gluing. Not sure I would glue it myself. The coupling itself might be enough as there is no pressure up top.

It worked.. I've got it running really nice right now... It's at the right level and passes the power outage test or return pump failure..

Thank you again.. I was really wondering what my next step was going to be until you had me thinking in the right direction..

 

[flyfisher2]

It worked.. I've got it running really nice right now... It's at the right level and passes the power outage test or return pump failure..

Thank you again.. I was really wondering what my next step was going to be until you had me thinking in the right direction..

Awesome!!! Glad it worked for you. Stay positive. You've got this. Remember it's a hobby and it can be challenging at times. When you overcome the obstacles you get a stronger sense of achievement. Good luck!

 

[gfish]

Just thought I'd give an update. It's been slow going the tank is still cycling right now since feb 22nd (3rd week). My nitrites are way up and ammonia starting to slowly reduce so I know it's close.

Everything else is pretty much running fine. I am a bit surprised at how much water evaporates in a single day. I probably go through 2-3 gallons a day. I guess that's because it's rimless tank. I found out my check valve already failed in a power down test to adjust some plumbing but the way I have the return it breaks siphon after about 2 inches anyhow so it was fine.. Other than that I've had trouble with my salinity probe on the apex reading correctly. I just couldn't get it calibrated at all and gave up trying and then a couple days later it's pretty close to what my Hanna is reading now so I don't know.. I haven't really messed too much with anything else yet the PH is running 7.9 and I have the temp at 80 for the cycle. Seems like every day I tweak things just a little more and adjust a little something here or there. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I'll be able to add the first clown fish.

 

[flyfisher2]

Just thought I'd give an update. It's been slow going the tank is still cycling right now since feb 22nd (3rd week). My nitrites are way up and ammonia starting to slowly reduce so I know it's close.

Everything else is pretty much running fine. I am a bit surprised at how much water evaporates in a single day. I probably go through 2-3 gallons a day. I guess that's because it's rimless tank. I found out my check valve already failed in a power down test to adjust some plumbing but the way I have the return it breaks siphon after about 2 inches anyhow so it was fine.. Other than that I've had trouble with my salinity probe on the apex reading correctly. I just couldn't get it calibrated at all and gave up trying and then a couple days later it's pretty close to what my Hanna is reading now so I don't know.. I haven't really messed too much with anything else yet the PH is running 7.9 and I have the temp at 80 for the cycle. Seems like every day I tweak things just a little more and adjust a little something here or there. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I'll be able to add the first clown fish.

Patience is a virtue or so I’ve heard. Lol
The fact that you’re seeing nitrites is a plus.
The ammonia is dropping as that occurs and you’ll be stocking before you know it.
Take this time to READ and plan.
Toss ideas around and share with others so you can get opinions on gear, placement, compatibility and more.
Back in the day all we could do was read a book and try and do exactly what the author did. Today we have options and opinions from experienced aquarist!
Isn’t technology great?
Good luck and hang tight, you’re almost there.

 

[gfish]

Patience is a virtue or so I’ve heard. Lol
The fact that you’re seeing nitrites is a plus.
The ammonia is dropping as that occurs and you’ll be stocking before you know it.
Take this time to READ and plan.
Toss ideas around and share with others so you can get opinions on gear, placement, compatibility and more.
Back in the day all we could do was read a book and try and do exactly what the author did. Today we have options and opinions from experienced aquarist!
Isn’t technology great?
Good luck and hang tight, you’re almost there.

Yeah I think it's close. Ammonia is finally down after many days of nitrite.. hopefully nitrite will drop soon.. I'm ready to get to the next phase that's for sure.

Patience is a must if you like it or not in this hobby that's for sure..

Thanks for all the advice!

 

[gfish]

Yeah I think it's close. Ammonia is finally down after many days of nitrite.. hopefully nitrite will drop soon.. I'm ready to get to the next phase that's for sure.

Patience is a must if you like it or not in this hobby that's for sure..

Thanks for all the advice!

Now I think I might have a cycle stall because of high nitrite.. it's been off the charts for days now and for the last 3 days my nitrate is stuck at 20ppm and not going up..

I guess time to start doing a water change to be bring nitrite down to at least measurable on the chart.

 

[gfish]

Thought I'd give a final update on my "build" thread I started seems like a long time ago..

My tank is cycled after about a month and I have 2 clowns and 2 Banggai cardinals for a little over a week and they seem very happy. The clowns were tiny little things and I swear they've grown nearly double in size in just over a week now.

Everything has been dialed in pretty well.. I don't think I need my skimmer yet it's not really skimming very much.. My Trigger roller fleece seems to be doing a real good job removing.

I only made 1 mistake so far and that's turning on my lights too soon to high intensity for coral growth and I don't have any corals yet. But what I do have now is some red slime algae that started up as a few little patches and then in the matter of 24-48 hours it's expanded quite a bit.. On the rocks and sand bottom.. After I realized what was happening I turned my lights off and i'm going to add some Dr. timm's eco balance and i also have a small reef cleaning pack coming with some hermit's and snails. I think my mistake was also not doing a good water change after the cycle. My nitrates were reading really low so I figured it was ok but now I think I should have done it anyways.. So i have to take care of that issue but other than that it's been doing great.

I'm officially keeper of some salt water livestock right now anyhow This forum has been a god send for information when i ran into road blocks with my build and I truly appreciate all the information and recommendations people have given me. I am not sure I could have gotten to this point without the help.

Looking forward to that first coral in a couple months and growing and maturing the tank! So far i'm really enjoying the hobby.

 

[caseym1211]

So I was gon

Thought I'd give a final update on my "build" thread I started seems like a long time ago..

My tank is cycled after about a month and I have 2 clowns and 2 Banggai cardinals for a little over a week and they seem very happy. The clowns were tiny little things and I swear they've grown nearly double in size in just over a week now.

Everything has been dialed in pretty well.. I don't think I need my skimmer yet it's not really skimming very much.. My Trigger roller fleece seems to be doing a real good job removing.

I only made 1 mistake so far and that's turning on my lights too soon to high intensity for coral growth and I don't have any corals yet. But what I do have now is some red slime algae that started up as a few little patches and then in the matter of 24-48 hours it's expanded quite a bit.. On the rocks and sand bottom.. After I realized what was happening I turned my lights off and i'm going to add some Dr. timm's eco balance and i also have a small reef cleaning pack coming with some hermit's and snails. I think my mistake was also not doing a good water change after the cycle. My nitrates were reading really low so I figured it was ok but now I think I should have done it anyways.. So i have to take care of that issue but other than that it's been doing great.

I'm officially keeper of some salt water livestock right now anyhow This forum has been a god send for information when i ran into road blocks with my build and I truly appreciate all the information and recommendations people have given me. I am not sure I could have gotten to this point without the help.

Looking forward to that first coral in a couple months and growing and maturing the tank! So far i'm really enjoying the hobby

 

[caseym1211]

So if you had to do it again would you get this tank because I was looking at these 200 tank or a planet aquarium but this one is way better price but from this I feel like I might just need to spend the extra money.

 

[gfish]

So if you had to do it again would you get this tank because I was looking at these 200 tank or a planet aquarium but this one is way better price but from this I feel like I might just need to spend the extra money.

I personally would not for the reasons that I do not like the way they have the plumbing set up and to change out the plumbing was a huge pain.

If you don't plan to do anything but use the plumbing and sump that comes with the tank then it's a good deal. The tank is beautiful the stand is nice everything else is great. If you want to customize your plumbing and sump then I'd highly recommend staying away from this one and spend the extra $$ for a tank that is more friendly to these upgrades.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

you can only get flow equal to your smallest diameter which is the bulkhead..

Just a FYI but flow, i.e., restriction, is determined by diameter of the pipe over distance.

A one inch diameter pipe that is five feet long will have near exactly the same flow rate as the same five foot pipe with a 3/4 diameter inch section located somewhere in it that is only an inch or so in length (say a bulkhead)...

In other words, a short 3/4 inch bulkhead adds very little restriction to a pipe that is otherwise one inch the rest of the way otherwise...

The short 3/4 inch bulkhead adds very little restriction...

If the 3/4 inch section is longer, say 25% of the length of the pipe (and the remaining length is one inch in diameter), that will reduce the flow to some significant degree... but that pipe will still have far more flow than a pipe that is 3/4 inch in diameter for the entire length...

Maybe that helps..

 

[gfish]

Just a FYI but flow, i.e., restriction, is determined by diameter of the pipe over distance.

A one inch diameter pipe that is five feet long will have near exactly the same flow rate as the same five foot pipe with a 3/4 diameter inch section located somewhere in it that is only an inch or so in length (say a bulkhead)...

In other words, a short 3/4 inch bulkhead adds very little restriction to a pipe that is otherwise one inch the rest of the way otherwise...

The short 3/4 inch bulkhead adds very little restriction...

If the 3/4 inch section is longer, say 25% of the length of the pipe (and the remaining length is one inch in diameter), that will reduce the flow to some significant degree... but that pipe will still have far more flow than a pipe that is 3/4 inch in diameter for the entire length...

Maybe that helps..

A 3/4" bulkhead is going to restrict flow a lot more than a 1" bulkhead. Flow in a "rate of volume" is restricted by the smallest area of diameter. What you are referring to is the rate at which flow travels or "speed" of travel that is not changed much by the restrictive bulkhead and that is true. There is a lot of documented tests on this issue with actual tests in a GPH result.

Bulkhead Flow Rate Art

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

A 3/4" bulkhead is going to restrict flow a lot more than a 1" bulkhead. Flow in a "rate of volume" is restricted by the smallest area of diameter. What you are referring to is the rate at which flow travels or "speed" of travel that is not changed much by the restrictive bulkhead and that is true. There is a lot of documented tests on this issue with actual tests in a GPH result.

Bulkhead Flow Rate Art

Maybe you're right, but that link i don't think shows results from bulkheads of one size connected to different size pipe, which is what i was referring to...

I know when i set up draft lines, smaller openings, relative to pipe size, at the tap or keg will not reduce flow (much). To reduce flow you have to have several feet of lesser diameter pipe. It's the lesser diameter over lengths of pipe that creates the restriction to slow flow.

A common length is 15 feet. I have to have several feet of 1/4" line and several feet of lesser 3/16" line to get proper flow. All 1/4" line is far too much flow. All 3/16" is far too little flow. 95% 1/4" line and 5% 3/16" line would generate basically the same flow as 100 1/4" line. Small openings, e.g., a bulkhead, have little or no impact on flow rates.

 

[gfish]

Maybe you're right, but that link i don't think shows results from bulkheads of one size connected to different size pipe, which is what i was referring to...

I know when i set up draft lines, smaller openings, relative to pipe size, at the tap or keg will not reduce flow (much). To reduce flow you have to have several feet of lesser diameter pipe. It's the lesser diameter over lengths of pipe that creates the restriction to slow flow.

A common length is 15 feet. I have to have several feet of 1/4" line and several feet of lesser 3/16" line to get proper flow. All 1/4" line is far too much flow. All 3/16" is far too little flow. 95% 1/4" line and 5% 3/16" line would generate basically the same flow as 100 1/4" line. Small openings, e.g., a bulkhead, have little or no impact on flow rates.

Total volume of flow is restricted to the smallest diameter of the pipe (or bulkhead) this is common physics and calculation of volume flow area you simply can't put in more flow through the bulkhead than is allowed with gravity. The length of the pipe does effect and restrict flow as well by friction and gravity and there are other factors that can increase flow faster such as the siphon effect and when it starts as mentioned in the testing.. but if you take 2 equal pipes with the same diameter and same length and same drop completely identical and they are any size larger than a 1" diameter pipe with the only difference being a 3/4" bulkhead and 1" bulkhead. The 1" bulkhead pipe is going to give you a lot more volume than the 3/4" bulkhead and in the real world testing almost double volume. There are other factors that can make a difference but generally speaking the smaller bulkhead is always going to reduce your flow rate there's just no way to get around it. In your case you have some pretty small piping so it may not make much difference there in what you are doing I'm not sure.

In my case I wanted to be able to reach at least 5 times turn over in my tank and the only way that was going to happen was by using 2 of the drains for flow instead of just 1 to increase my "total volume".

The reason I mentioned this is I wanted to make sure that people understood what their restrictions were on this tank with the plumbing that it comes with and this was one of them.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Alright, fair enough, sounds like your expertise. What do you recommend for maximum length of pipe and what diameter when running one inch bulkheads on a bean animal and 200 gallon tank? Say minimum five times turnover?

 

[gfish]

Alright, fair enough, sounds like your expertise. What do you recommend for maximum length of pipe and what diameter when running one inch bulkheads on a bean animal and 200 gallon tank? Say minimum five times turnover?

For length of pipe to the sump? I've only had under cabinet sumps which is very short pipe runs and has to be cut to fit so I never really worried about maximum length I just had to make it fit correctly to the sump. If you are running it to a garage or basement or something then that could come into play but I'm not sure there are probably other people with that type of setup that could give a lot better advice.

With 1" bulkheads on a bean animal and 1" drain pipe you will have no issues at all getting 5 times turnover. Just a single 1" full siphon alone can get you 900+GPH so you would just about be there without the 2nd drain (with air vent) at all from bean animal. This is why "most" all tanks that size of 150+ have 1" bulkheads or larger standard and you can easily just do a herbie style drain if you only have 2 drains and want to have the emergency drain as the 2nd one.

To me the emergency drain was of great importance and something that I really wanted and so i was left with deciding to either be stuck with maybe 400 or so GPH full siphon drain as max and have the 2nd drain as an emergency drain (herbie style) ... or convert the return bulkhead to a drain and use it as the emergency drain.. The other 2 drains become bean animal style at that point.. and run the return piping up the back of the tank.

Since the overflow box was so small on this tank and that was my limits and choices I went with the conversion to bean animal.. i'm happy I did that and it's working great right now and i can really open up the drains for that turn over if i need it and I feel completely safe with that emergency drain ready to take over if one of my snails or something else gets into the normal drains and restricts flow.

I can utilize my RO Varios 8 pump very well with this setup and it's not overpowering for the tank.. I have it on 3rd from lowest setting right now with ability to crank it up more if I need to and I don't have any reactors or anything yet running off my main pump return. To me... I basically took the tank and upgraded the durso style drain/return setup with no emergency drain that it came with to the best setup out there that is pretty much fail proof.. The only downside is I have to run external return piping but it can't be seen anyhow since the tank is backed against a wall. It was a lot of extra work and pain to get it done but I learned a lot doing it. This was just my preference of what I wanted and I'm sure others out there are completely fine with this tank came with and it's working good for them and they are happy. Honestly I probably tinker too much with everything as it is anyhow that's just my nature but it's how I learn and create/build things and that's why I'm in the hobby to begin with.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Thanka, yeah the sump is in its own fish room so their is a little bit of a run to it.

I like your thinking on converting your setup. It's a lot of water that could overflow to not have three drains!

Maybe put a sea swirl on the external return?