MY VISIT TO KP AQUATICS

Dr. Jim

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Now that I live 2.5 hrs from the Florida Keys, I was able to stop by KP Aquatics and pick up some rock. Philipp was nice enough to let my time my visit after an afternoon dive boat trip. This was the third time I've purchased KP rock and it has always been nice.

Personally, I like to mix KP rock with Gulf rock. Each has its pros and cons in my opinion, but I like the idea of getting a greater diversity (especially bacteria) from the Atlantic and Gulf rock. The structure of the KP rock definitely has a nicer appearance with tunnels and crevices; the Gulf rock has more critters attached (rose corals, gorgonians, macroalgae, clams, tube worms, squirts, etc.) But, for me, I want bacteria from the Atlantic. (I really wish I could get it from the Pacific, like in the old days, but this is next best).

Each has their pests, but you just have to deal with them. (I highly recommend NOT going with Dry Rock just to avoid pests (or cost).
Gulf pests: aiptasia galore! KP pests: Fire worms are the main ones, IME. But now that I have discovered that Ivermectin works pretty well to paralyze, or kill, the Fire Worms, I am not so worried about them anymore. In the past, Fire worms wiped out over 30 SPS frags before I figured out what was killing them! I will definitely always treat KP rock with ivermectin. (2cc of 1% IVOMEC per 30 gal seems to paralyze them so they drop out of the rock. A repeat dose 24 hrs later with 1-2 cc may be better but may also affect spaghetti worms and feather dusters. There were 3 of each in my rock that became paralyzed after the first dose of 2cc. Not sure if they will die since I just dosed the tank yesterday and am undecided if will add more today. Mantis shrimp and large crabs are rare, according to Philipp. (I did pick off about 4 tiny crabs; I'm sure there are more, and little crabs can become big crabs, of course!)

Here is a picture of Philipp. He is the handsome one on the left. By default, I guess that makes me the handsome one on the right?:rolleyes: It appears that I am exceptionally happy about getting the rock, but actually, somebody just said something really funny when the photo was taken! :D But, I am very pleased with the rock!
KP Philipp and Dr. Jim 4.6.22.jpg


BTW, Philipp has tons of local fish and inverts! I'm sure I will be back to get some!

Here are photos of the 50 lbs of rock I got. (In a 30 gal Q-tank). 25 lbs will completely fill a standard 5 gal bucket, maybe with a little sticking out the top).
KP rock front 4.8.22.jpg


Top view
KP top view 4.8.22.jpg


Top view; close
KP top view close 4.8.22.jpg


Feather duster
KP rock w. feather duster 4.8.22.jpg


Fire worm that fell out of rock 2 hrs after ivermectin added. This may be just a piece of one since they are usually longer when they are this "thick." (I've had some 8 or 9" long in previous batches). Actually, it was a little difficult to determine if this is truly a Fire Worm or just a bristle worm, but I'm pretty sure it is the Fire Worm. (I disposed of it away too quickly; I should have kept it in a container of water to see if it would die by the next day to help determine if more ivermectin is needed. Next time.)
Fire Worm.jpg


I'll just add two more photos from my dive trip. It probably isn't necessary to remind my fellow aquarists about Global Warming and Coral Bleaching, but this dive really hit me in a hard and sad way. The last time I scuba dived in the Keys was 44 years ago. One of the few good things about being "old" is that I was around to dive before Global Warming. Comparing my dive yesterday to the ones from 44 years ago is shocking. There were a lot of young divers with huge smiles on their faces when they got back on the boat. But I felt "sick-to-my-stomach" after seeing what has happened to our reefs. Although disturbing, we need to keep spreading stories like mine.

There were very few patches of stony corals. Here are 2 examples of the bleaching.
coral bleaching.JPG


coral bleaching.1JPG.JPG


And, just to be not too depressing, I'll end on a happier note with this one.......
school.3JPG.JPG
 

blaxsun

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Thanks for sharing. KP Aquatics seems like a neat place. That's great that you could work in "business" and pleasure into the same trip!

That's definitely sad to see with the coral bleaching. I haven't dived in years, but I still remember what many reefs were like only 2 decades ago.
 

Manny’s Reef

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Now that I live 2.5 hrs from the Florida Keys, I was able to stop by KP Aquatics and pick up some rock. Philipp was nice enough to let my time my visit after an afternoon dive boat trip. This was the third time I've purchased KP rock and it has always been nice.

Personally, I like to mix KP rock with Gulf rock. Each has its pros and cons in my opinion, but I like the idea of getting a greater diversity (especially bacteria) from the Atlantic and Gulf rock. The structure of the KP rock definitely has a nicer appearance with tunnels and crevices; the Gulf rock has more critters attached (rose corals, gorgonians, macroalgae, clams, tube worms, squirts, etc.) But, for me, I want bacteria from the Atlantic. (I really wish I could get it from the Pacific, like in the old days, but this is next best).

Each has their pests, but you just have to deal with them. (I highly recommend NOT going with Dry Rock just to avoid pests (or cost).
Gulf pests: aiptasia galore! KP pests: Fire worms are the main ones, IME. But now that I have discovered that Ivermectin works pretty well to paralyze, or kill, the Fire Worms, I am not so worried about them anymore. In the past, Fire worms wiped out over 30 SPS frags before I figured out what was killing them! I will definitely always treat KP rock with ivermectin. (2cc of 1% IVOMEC per 30 gal seems to paralyze them so they drop out of the rock. A repeat dose 24 hrs later with 1-2 cc may be better but may also affect spaghetti worms and feather dusters. There were 3 of each in my rock that became paralyzed after the first dose of 2cc. Not sure if they will die since I just dosed the tank yesterday and am undecided if will add more today. Mantis shrimp and large crabs are rare, according to Philipp. (I did pick off about 4 tiny crabs; I'm sure there are more, and little crabs can become big crabs, of course!)

Here is a picture of Philipp. He is the handsome one on the left. By default, I guess that makes me the handsome one on the right?:rolleyes: It appears that I am exceptionally happy about getting the rock, but actually, somebody just said something really funny when the photo was taken! :D But, I am very pleased with the rock!
KP Philipp and Dr. Jim 4.6.22.jpg


BTW, Philipp has tons of local fish and inverts! I'm sure I will be back to get some!

Here are photos of the 50 lbs of rock I got. (In a 30 gal Q-tank). 25 lbs will completely fill a standard 5 gal bucket, maybe with a little sticking out the top).
KP rock front 4.8.22.jpg


Top view
KP top view 4.8.22.jpg


Top view; close
KP top view close 4.8.22.jpg


Feather duster
KP rock w. feather duster 4.8.22.jpg


Fire worm that fell out of rock 2 hrs after ivermectin added. This may be just a piece of one since they are usually longer when they are this "thick." (I've had some 8 or 9" long in previous batches). Actually, it was a little difficult to determine if this is truly a Fire Worm or just a bristle worm, but I'm pretty sure it is the Fire Worm. (I disposed of it away too quickly; I should have kept it in a container of water to see if it would die by the next day to help determine if more ivermectin is needed. Next time.)
Fire Worm.jpg


I'll just add two more photos from my dive trip. It probably isn't necessary to remind my fellow aquarists about Global Warming and Coral Bleaching, but this dive really hit me in a hard and sad way. The last time I scuba dived in the Keys was 44 years ago. One of the few good things about being "old" is that I was around to dive before Global Warming. Comparing my dive yesterday to the ones from 44 years ago is shocking. There were a lot of young divers with huge smiles on their faces when they got back on the boat. But I felt "sick-to-my-stomach" after seeing what has happened to our reefs. Although disturbing, we need to keep spreading stories like mine.

There were very few patches of stony corals. Here are 2 examples of the bleaching.
coral bleaching.JPG


coral bleaching.1JPG.JPG


And, just to be not too depressing, I'll end on a happier note with this one.......
school.3JPG.JPG
Thanks for sharing. I’ve been interested in KP before
 

Nano sapiens

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I used to keep a blue headed wrasse like that.
Why get live rock if your gonna qt it and treat it?
D
It's easier/safer to deal with certain 'nasties' in a qt vs dealing with them in a dt.

Back-in-the-day different physical methods were used to remove pests/undesirables, but selective chemical methods of eradication are an option available today (personal choice). Main concern is that the resident microbial community is not negatively impacted by the treatment
 
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mindme

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I'm considering using live rock on my 25g cube rebuild, and you just reminded me why I've used dry rock for the past 10 years.

Boy this is a hard decision. I want the life, but I don't want the pests. At least I have a few weeks before my tank is ready for this, still have to drill my 2 return line holes.

I was leaning live rock, now I'm leaning a bit more dry rock. The other thing with dry rock is I like to use a sledge hammer and break all the pieces into smaller ones, then glue them back together for an aquascape that I want, rather than stacking rocks.

I want the best of both worlds and I can't have it.
 
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Dr. Jim

Dr. Jim

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I used to keep a blue headed wrasse like that.
Why get live rock if your gonna qt it and treat it?
D

REASONS FOR QUARANTINING/TREATING LIVE ROCK

1. I let it sit for at least 3 weeks so hopefully any protozoan parasites, tremadodes and parasitic eggs and larvae, will die off. Rinsing off the seawater by being in the Q-tank probably helps with this too.

2. I will never add KP rock without first treating for Bearded Fire Worms! You can read about my nightmare with them here, where I lost over 30 SPS frags! https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/white-tips-on-sps-frags-every-morning-for-past-15-days.785927/ Just read POST #1, and the conclusion, POST 136.

3. Also, it doesn't hurt to check the ammonia and nitrite production to make sure it is truly cured. (This may not be essential if rock doesn't smell bad and you are just adding a little to an established tank).

In my case, I am starting a new tank system with this rock (and a few pieces from another system). I will be adding another 50 lbs of Gulf Rock in a few weeks.
 
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Dr. Jim

Dr. Jim

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I'm considering using live rock on my 25g cube rebuild, and you just reminded me why I've used dry rock for the past 10 years.

Boy this is a hard decision. I want the life, but I don't want the pests. At least I have a few weeks before my tank is ready for this, still have to drill my 2 return line holes.

I was leaning live rock, now I'm leaning a bit more dry rock. The other thing with dry rock is I like to use a sledge hammer and break all the pieces into smaller ones, then glue them back together for an aquascape that I want, rather than stacking rocks.

I want the best of both worlds and I can't have it.
There are plenty of threads on Dry vs Live Rock so I prefer that this thread doesn't turn into that debate. I'll just say that after over 50 years in the hobby, the most important advice I can give a new reefer starting in today's world of "no Pacific rock" is that starting with Dry Rock is the biggest mistake a reefer can make!

I plan to make an aquascape with live rock. There is no reason it can't be done in a method similar to how you would do it with dry rock. You'll still be doing it in sections like you would with dry rock...... you just need to have a tank of water to put it in immediately. If you are worried about it drying out, just pour or spray water on it. Just need a little ingenuity: maybe a pan underneath it, etc.

Hope this helps....
 
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Dr. Jim

Dr. Jim

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I would think something that would kill brittle worms would kill tube bound worms such as feather dusters ect.
My opinion
D
My experiments with ivermectin are limited, but so far, the doses I am using are sparing the tube worms and spaghetti worms. They all seem to become partially paralyzed and tend to come out of the rock. Today is day 2 after adding the ivermectin. I found only 1 Fire Worm so there is no way of knowing if some are still within the rock but in the past, it seems like they usually come out and lie on the bottom where they are easily picked up. But this is making me consider adding more ivermectin. I don't care if I kill off the 3 tiny feather dusters and 3 spaghetti worms. I have plenty of them in other rocks so they will spread. The most important thing is to get rid of the Fire Worms. Here is a picture of a Spaghetti Worm that has exposed his red body. When I touch it, it retracts, so it is still alive. (Usually, they just come out at night).
Spaghetti worm.jpg


MORE EXCITEMENT!! I just found what may be a baby mantis shrimp. It was darting around in a "drunken" fashion and I was easily able to catch it! Ivermectin is used to kill worms and arthropods, Mantis shrimp are in the phylum "Arthropoda" so it makes sense that ivermectin would be good for ridding them as well as the Fire Worms!
I'm still tweaking my dosage for ivermectin but if anyone is interested, I am quite confident I can make a good recommendation. From previous trials I am convinced that the dosages I have been using are safe with SPS corals.
Here is what I believe is the baby mantis shrimp:
Mantis shrimp.jpg
 

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