Mysterious Disease, Lennardi Wrasse Has it, need help!

[Micksfish]

Alright, so this might be a long description, but I want you to have all the information.

For some time, I have had a mysterious disease with sand dwelling wrasses. They do great in my tank for anywhere from a couple weeks to 8 months. Then, they start to rub on the sand and rocks. The are usually rubbing around their gills, so of course my first thought was flukes. However, I have tried treating with prazi and formalin and had no luck with previous fish I owned, at least not the ones that end up staying in my main display system.

Additionally, no other fish outside of my sand dwelling wrasses has had this issue. I have a fairy wrasse, potters angel, firefish, yellow tang and all have been perfectly fine for a year.

The tank has been setup for 2 and a half years and is well established mixed reef. My water quality is good (Ammonia-0, PH-8.2, Nitrite and Nitrates both well within acceptable ranges). I do water changes regularly (twice monthly) and have an established maintenance system that overall works.

That being said, this is now the 6th sand dwelling wrasse to exhibit this issue. The first was a Kuteri Wrasse, then a Radiant Wrasse, then a Choati Wrasse, Orange Lined Wrasse, Ornate leopard Wrasse. The first 3 eventually died, the last two lived as I transferred them out of my tank to a QT tank and them sold them after doing multiple treatments with formalin.

I had removed all my sand dwelling wrasses for 3 weeks thinking that would be enough time for whatever was causing this to die off. I had a great opportunity to pick up a Juvie Lennardi Wrasse and for the first 2 weeks, he was doing great. Didn't itch once, ate like a pig, super active and had a great schedule that she stuck to.

However, today I noticed she is now itching just as the last wrasses did. I must save this fish, not just for my wallet's sake, but for me, I have always wanted this fish and refuse to lose it without trying everything possible.

To me, it seems to be something in my sand. As any wrasse I take out, QT and do not put into my tank, ends up being fine. But anything I eventually put back into my tank, ends up itching again. Additionally, once the fish is out of my display tank, the itching tends to subside rather quickly or at least they itch much less frequently almost right after I take them out of the tank.

So my question is what could be causing this and how can I treat it!??? What can take 2 weeks to start effecting a fish. Also, only seem to effect sand dwelling wrasses?

Any help is greatly appreciated as I will do anything to keep this lennardi wrasse alive and happy.

Mick

 

[Brew12]

Alright, so this might be a long description, but I want you to have all the information.

For some time, I have had a mysterious disease with sand dwelling wrasses. They do great in my tank for anywhere from a couple weeks to 8 months. Then, they start to rub on the sand and rocks. The are usually rubbing around their gills, so of course my first thought was flukes. However, I have tried treating with prazi and formalin and had no luck with previous fish I owned, at least not the ones that end up staying in my main display system.

Additionally, no other fish outside of my sand dwelling wrasses has had this issue. I have a fairy wrasse, potters angel, firefish, yellow tang and all have been perfectly fine for a year.

The tank has been setup for 2 and a half years and is well established mixed reef. My water quality is good (Ammonia-0, PH-8.2, Nitrite and Nitrates both well within acceptable ranges). I do water changes regularly (twice monthly) and have an established maintenance system that overall works.

That being said, this is now the 6th sand dwelling wrasse to exhibit this issue. The first was a Kuteri Wrasse, then a Radiant Wrasse, then a Choati Wrasse, Orange Lined Wrasse, Ornate leopard Wrasse. The first 3 eventually died, the last two lived as I transferred them out of my tank to a QT tank and them sold them after doing multiple treatments with formalin.

I had removed all my sand dwelling wrasses for 3 weeks thinking that would be enough time for whatever was causing this to die off. I had a great opportunity to pick up a Juvie Lennardi Wrasse and for the first 2 weeks, he was doing great. Didn't itch once, ate like a pig, super active and had a great schedule that she stuck to.

However, today I noticed she is now itching just as the last wrasses did. I must save this fish, not just for my wallet's sake, but for me, I have always wanted this fish and refuse to lose it without trying everything possible.

To me, it seems to be something in my sand. As any wrasse I take out, QT and do not put into my tank, ends up being fine. But anything I eventually put back into my tank, ends up itching again. Additionally, once the fish is out of my display tank, the itching tends to subside rather quickly or at least they itch much less frequently almost right after I take them out of the tank.

So my question is what could be causing this and how can I treat it!??? What can take 2 weeks to start effecting a fish. Also, only seem to effect sand dwelling wrasses?

Any help is greatly appreciated as I will do anything to keep this lennardi wrasse alive and happy.

Mick

I'm sorry for your struggles.

Have you ever done a fresh water dip to try and confirm flukes? Not necessarily on a wrasse, but on any fish in your system?

 

[Micksfish]

I'm sorry for your struggles.

Have you ever done a fresh water dip to try and confirm flukes? Not necessarily on a wrasse, but on any fish in your system?

I have, and have had flukes in the past. But have solved that with prazi. I will definitely do a dip on the lennardi to ensure its not flukes as a first step. It just seems based on everything else, it is probably something else.

But thanks for the tips, anything helps right now!

 

[Brew12]

I have, and have had flukes in the past. But have solved that with prazi. I will definitely do a dip on the lennardi to ensure its not flukes as a first step. It just seems based on everything else, it is probably something else.

But thanks for the tips, anything helps right now!

It's an easy first step. Prazi resistant flukes seem to be getting more common so if you didn't dip a fish again around a month later to check your treatment may not have been successful. And you don't need to dip the lennardi, I would dip which ever fish was easiest to catch.

 

[Micksfish]

The odd part to me, is shouldn't flukes effect all of the fish?

I have only seen my sand dwelling wrasses rub and itch. Nothing else has itched even once.

Thankfully, I know where the lennardi sleep at night, so I can gently pull him from there. I have gotten pretty good at catching sleeping wrasses with stressing them out much. Just need to have a gentle hand ha.

 

[Micksfish]

It's an easy first step. Prazi resistant flukes seem to be getting more common so if you didn't dip a fish again around a month later to check your treatment may not have been successful. And you don't need to dip the lennardi, I would dip which ever fish was easiest to catch.

See above, forgot to reply to your quote.

 

[Brew12]

The odd part to me, is shouldn't flukes effect all of the fish?

I have only seen my sand dwelling wrasses rub and itch. Nothing else has itched even once.

Thankfully, I know where the lennardi sleep at night, so I can gently pull him from there. I have gotten pretty good at catching sleeping wrasses with stressing them out much. Just need to have a gentle hand ha.

Not every fish is impacted equally. I had to deal with flukes and the only fish that showed symptoms was my Hippo tang. If not for his flashing, I would never have known. I had a yellow tang, 2 clowns, and a few damsels that also had flukes. If anything, the yellow tang had the most but he never showed it.

 

[Micksfish]

Not every fish is impacted equally. I had to deal with flukes and the only fish that showed symptoms was my Hippo tang. If not for his flashing, I would never have known. I had a yellow tang, 2 clowns, and a few damsels that also had flukes. If anything, the yellow tang had the most but he never showed it.

Interesting, well I plan to isolate the lennardi either way, to ensure I can treat her. So I will freshwater dip her first. If she does have it, I will dip others to confirm they all have it. If so, I don't know what I will do. Most likely will need to setup a 20 gallon QT tank and pull every fish and treat for at least a month to ensure everything in the main display dies off, yes?

 

[Brew12]

Interesting, well I plan to isolate the lennardi either way, to ensure I can treat her. So I will freshwater dip her first. If she does have it, I will dip others to confirm they all have it. If so, I don't know what I will do. Most likely will need to setup a 20 gallon QT tank and pull every fish and treat for at least a month to ensure everything in the main display dies off, yes?

I'm going to have to defer on answering... I don't have any experience with prazi resistant flukes and my memory is failing me right now. I believe @HotRocks and @Big G would be able to offer better advice when it comes to them.

Unless, of course, you just want me to make something up.... ;Wideyed

 

[Micksfish]

I'm going to have to defer on answering... I don't have any experience with prazi resistant flukes and my memory is failing me right now. I believe @HotRocks and @Big G would be able to offer better advice when it comes to them.

Unless, of course, you just want me to make something up.... ;Wideyed

I appreciate it! I will keep an eye out for their replies.
Thanks for the help!

 

[HotRocks]

I'm going to have to defer on answering... I don't have any experience with prazi resistant flukes and my memory is failing me right now. I believe @HotRocks and @Big G would be able to offer better advice when it comes to them.

Unless, of course, you just want me to make something up.... ;Wideyed

This situation is a bit puzzling. Although it does sound like maybe you have encountered a prazi resistant strain of flukes. Interested to hear the results of the dip.

I don't know why your wrasse seem to be more heavily affected with whatever is going on than others. Flukes are usually present in numbers that are not marginal. If you do find them coming off in the dip you may have to use formalin to erradicate and go through a fallow period in DT. I would dip multiple fish if you can as well. Some fish are very resistant to flukes.

 

[Big G]

+1 this ^^^^^^ exactly. The hard part is finding something with a high enough level of formalin. This one below does:

 

[Micksfish]

This situation is a bit puzzling. Although it does sound like maybe you have encountered a prazi resistant strain of flukes. Interested to hear the results of the dip.

I don't know why your wrasse seem to be more heavily affected with whatever is going on than others. Flukes are usually present in numbers that are not marginal. If you do find them coming off in the dip you may have to use formalin to erradicate and go through a fallow period in DT. I would dip multiple fish if you can as well. Some fish are very resistant to flukes.

Thanks for the tips.
I was planning on pulling at least a clownfish and the lennardi to see if either have flukes. I am thinking of maybe pulling one more just so we can say with 3 examples whether or not that is it.

If I do find flukes, how long does that fallow period need to be?
Can Dragonets get gill flukes? How about a small yellow spot goby? Does literally every fish need to come out of the tank then?

Just trying to plan out what I will need to setup if that is the case.

 

[Micksfish]

+1 this ^^^^^^ exactly. The hard part is finding something with a high enough level of formalin. This one below does:

Thanks I actually have straight formalin that is 37%.

 

[Big G]

You may want to read this: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hyposalinity.247596/#post-2907751

 

[Micksfish]

You may want to read this: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hyposalinity.247596/#post-2907751

Just checked it out, thanks.
From what I have ready Hyposalinity is much more effective with ich than flukes. Or am I mistaken on this?

 

[Brew12]

Thanks for the tips.
I was planning on pulling at least a clownfish and the lennardi to see if either have flukes. I am thinking of maybe pulling one more just so we can say with 3 examples whether or not that is it.

If I do find flukes, how long does that fallow period need to be?
Can Dragonets get gill flukes? How about a small yellow spot goby? Does literally every fish need to come out of the tank then?

Just trying to plan out what I will need to setup if that is the case.

Almost every fish can get them. Some are less impacted by them but can still serve as a host. The immune system can reduce the rate they multiply, and keep them much smaller to reduce gill damage, but they are likely still present. So yes, you would need to remove every fish.

It is also an option to try Prazipro in a QT which is more effective than in a DT. Just to verify that prazi resistant treatments are necessary.

 

[HotRocks]

Thanks for the tips.
I was planning on pulling at least a clownfish and the lennardi to see if either have flukes. I am thinking of maybe pulling one more just so we can say with 3 examples whether or not that is it.

If I do find flukes, how long does that fallow period need to be?
Can Dragonets get gill flukes? How about a small yellow spot goby? Does literally every fish need to come out of the tank then?

Just trying to plan out what I will need to setup if that is the case.

Yes all fish need to be treated. DT would need to be fallow for 6 weeks.

 

[Micksfish]

Almost every fish can get them. Some are less impacted by them but can still serve as a host. The immune system can reduce the rate they multiply, and keep them much smaller to reduce gill damage, but they are likely still present. So yes, you would need to remove every fish.

It is also an option to try Prazipro in a QT which is more effective than in a DT. Just to verify that prazi resistant treatments are necessary.

Thanks.
I have dosed prazi probably 5 times over the last year in my DT, as well as in the QT as a first option with the fish I have isolated before the Lennardi. So if it is flukes, they are definitely resistant to Prazi.

If I did do a full QT with all my fish in it, would you recommend treating the whole tank with Formalin? What I did for the 2 fish still living that are at my LFS, was treated with about 5 treatments of Formalin, doing water changes between each treatment. Over about a 3 week period. They seem to be doing fine so far.

 

[Big G]

Just checked it out, thanks.
From what I have ready Hyposalinity is much more effective with ich than flukes. Or am I mistaken on this?

Studies have shown that hypo maintained for three days will kill all active adult flukes and for 5 days will kill the eggs.