Nano Algae Scrubber

Josh@ClearWaterScrubbers · Feb 8, 2018

Finhead said:
Sure but they have to start somewhere, this is aperfectly easy project to do so. Cheap easy and works, so that is why I sais why not try it. Why push our product in a DIY section? Kinda not the place is it?

I’m not pushing my product! I’m trying to stop someone who hasn’t done anything like that from electrocuting themselves or their tank. That’s all.

mkj · Feb 9, 2018

This is in the DIY thread so back to topic please. A reactor or scrubber can be DIY for less than $50 that works just as good as the more expensive ones. Depends on DIY skill and creativity. Yours looks good IMA Finhead and easy to make. I doubt you've spent thousands on tank inhabitants in your 20 gallon Becca so I would DIY a scrubber or reactor. No need to buy one unless you want to.

You may want to try a simple updraft scrubber DIY or one like Finhead made which is a downdraft scrubber. The updraft scrubber the lights are on side of sump so don't need lots of clearance above sump. Many reefers use this type because of the clearance problem. The updraft All you need is two Chinese food containers, few small magnets, small air pump, screen, plus light of course. There are a few threads on here and on web showing how to make them. Updrafts are least efficient but still work and easiest to DIY. If you have the room above sump though then I would recommend a DIY downdraft similar to Finheads. Lots of examples of downdraft threads also and they are more efficient than updrafts. Really depends on the room/clearance you have.

SantaMonica · Aug 3, 2018

does anyone know what lights clearwater uses

Chinese lights. Be careful though because they are not waterproof, and salt creep starts getting into the 120/240 volt area.

I find reactors are just as efficient on smaller to medium size tanks

Yes, if the reactors are five times as big.

How often do you run the light?

18 hours is a good start, but you can try 24. For very high nutrients, it sometimes works.

Have you seen the homemade chaeto reactors? They wrap the lights at round them and I haven’t seen one make it more than 6 months.

Yes they can be dangerous in terms of a water leakage that might reach some 120/240 volt area.

a ATS on a 12 gallon tank is more trouble than it's worth

Try a simple upflow... here is the upflow I invented in 2011, that Joey DIY used:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/l...urf-and-slime-algae-from-your-aquarium.86207/

You may want to try a simple updraft scrubber

Ah, you mean "upflow scrubber"

Updrafts are least efficient

Actually they are the most efficient. The bubbles rubbing the algae provide the most air/water interface turbulence. Matter of fact they never "mat down" like a waterfall does. And I invented waterfalls.

PmCarbrey · Aug 3, 2018

SantaMonica said:
Chinese lights. Be careful though because they are not waterproof, and salt creep starts getting into the 120/240 volt area.

Yes, if the reactors are five times as big.

18 hours is a good start, but you can try 24. For very high nutrients, it sometimes works.

Yes they can be dangerous in terms of a water leakage that might reach some 120/240 volt area.

Try a simple upflow... here is the upflow I invented in 2011, that Joey DIY used:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/l...urf-and-slime-algae-from-your-aquarium.86207/

Ah, you mean "upflow scrubber"

Actually they are the most efficient. The bubbles rubbing the algae provide the most air/water interface turbulence. Matter of fact they never "mat down" like a waterfall does. And I invented waterfalls.

Clearwater uses SB reef lights. And it's weird how you talk about salt creeping into them when we haven't had any complaints of that happening.

SantaMonica · Aug 8, 2018

I have. And unfortunately others have, particularly on a competing forum to R2R. Also you might search youtube for "chinese led light safety". This was one reason for us ending usage of those lights (we were the first to use them in 2008)... they are great for DIY because you usually know what you are doing with 240/120 volts near water. But if you are buying a pre-made product, you might not know. If you want to test one of the lights, just drop it underwater. The path that the water takes to get inside is the same path that salt creep takes.

All these lights are made in China, and are re-labelled. None are made in the U.S. And none have UL certified power supplies (if they are, they have "eXXXXXX"printed on them") that I have seen. Some might, but I have not seen them. This is why we pay triple cost for our power supplies to have a UL and Canadian UL certified rating, with the "eXXXXXX" printed on them.

Just trying to keep a bad ending from occurring.

PmCarbrey · Aug 8, 2018

SantaMonica said:
I have. And unfortunately others have, particularly on a competing forum to R2R. Also you might search youtube for "chinese led light safety". This was one reason for us ending usage of those lights (we were the first to use them in 2008)... they are great for DIY because you usually know what you are doing with 240/120 volts near water. But if you are buying a pre-made product, you might not know. If you want to test one of the lights, just drop it underwater. The path that the water takes to get inside is the same path that salt creep takes.

All these lights are made in China, and are re-labelled. None are made in the U.S. And none have UL certified power supplies (if they are, they have "eXXXXXX"printed on them") that I have seen. Some might, but I have not seen them. This is why we pay triple cost for our power supplies to have a UL and Canadian UL certified rating, with the "eXXXXXX" printed on them.

Just trying to keep a bad ending from occurring.

Can I seek your UL certificate? It's 10-15,000 per light to get UL certified, it's a money grab that's not worth it from a business perspective when CE is just as widely regarded.

Josh@ClearWaterScrubbers · Aug 8, 2018

SantaMonica said:
I have. And unfortunately others have, particularly on a competing forum to R2R. Also you might search youtube for "chinese led light safety". This was one reason for us ending usage of those lights (we were the first to use them in 2008)... they are great for DIY because you usually know what you are doing with 240/120 volts near water. But if you are buying a pre-made product, you might not know. If you want to test one of the lights, just drop it underwater. The path that the water takes to get inside is the same path that salt creep takes.

All these lights are made in China, and are re-labelled. None are made in the U.S. And none have UL certified power supplies (if they are, they have "eXXXXXX"printed on them") that I have seen. Some might, but I have not seen them. This is why we pay triple cost for our power supplies to have a UL and Canadian UL certified rating, with the "eXXXXXX" printed on them.

Just trying to keep a bad ending from occurring.

Ok Bryan... that’s enough bad mouthing something you don’t know what you’re talking about!

1) don’t group our lights into all Chinese lights. If you can provide actual documentation of OUR customers complaining about OUR lights then you have a leg to stand on. Using your theory about Chinese lights, means no one should ever use them due to salt creep. Whether that be on a scrubber or above the tank.

2) OUR lights provided by SB Reef lights are IP66 rated, which means they are splash proof which is more than enough on an EXTERNALLY mounted scrubber. So, our scrubbers shouldn’t be submerged ever if properly installed! If however there is a manufacturing defect, we provide a warranty for a year on them. What’s your warranty and your lights?

3) Our power supplies are internally mounted in the light housing. Not externally! They are manufactured to CE standards but it would cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $60,000 to get UL certification for these lights. It’s not a one power supply deal. Just because you may use a 3rd party power supply that is UL certified doesn’t mean your LED strips are.

4) Before you throw stones about someone’s product, you might want to fix the rusting issues with your HOG line. I’d be far more worried about poisoning someone’s tank with whatever those rusting magnets release into the water! I have a store in St. Louis that has throw at least 6 of YOUR HOG scrubbers away because of rusting magnets.

Good day to you sir!

skijumpersc · Aug 8, 2018

Finhead said:
I made a AS for my Red Sea Reefer Nano (21 gal) from a Tfal acrylic storage bin a piece of 1/2" PVC pipe a mesh screen (for kniting I believe) a grow light and a Maxijet powerhead. Just drilled a few holes with a reg hole saw, just have to go slow. Taped off where I wanted the light to shine thorugh and painted the outside black.

So does it sit in the rear chamber of your tank? how has this been working? I want to figure out something similar on a Red Sea 34g

SantaMonica · Aug 8, 2018

Can I seek your UL certificate?

They are printed on each power supply. The Chinese pay for it, not us. UL supplies cost 3x those that are just CE. However if there is an injury, the first thing the PI attorney will look for is UL certification where the 240/120 volts travel to (at least here in the U.S.)

OUR customers complaining about OUR lights

I was referring to Chinese grow lights in general; sorry if it sounded like yours in particular. But yours are Chinese, unless of course SB has a factory you can go watch them making them in. But still, it's the path of 240/120 volts that is of importance, and I 'm just trying to protect people.

Using your theory about Chinese lights, means no one should ever use them due to salt creep

Correct, for pre-made units. DIY is fine. But a customer of a pre-made unit is assuming safety. As as an electrical engineer, and referring to 240/120 volts a few inches from saltwater, in a non-hermetically sealed housing, especially with non-UL certification, I am willing to call them "potentially unsafe".

IP66 rated, which means they are splash proof which is more than enough on an EXTERNALLY mounted scrubber

I disagree. Splash has little to do with salt creep. Once the salt reaches the 240/120, there is going to be a short. And, the enclosures used by the Chinese are meant for freshwater gardens, light rain, or placement over indoor growing plants. There is no salt creep there, so it did not need to be addressed.

our scrubbers shouldn’t be submerged ever if properly installed

I certainly agree. But salt creep occurs everywhere.

If however there is a manufacturing defect, we provide a warranty

Warranties are great for getting filters back up and running, yes. But they are unrelated to liability coverage. And I can't speak of ours on this forum.

Our power supplies are internally mounted in the light housing

That's my point. Those housing are not hermetically sealed; salt creep travels to the power supply on the inside. If the supply was 2 meters away, with only 10 volts going to the lights, and if the DC side had a 3000 volt isolation from the AC side, then I'd say it was "safer", even without UL cert.

Just because you may use a 3rd party power supply that is UL certified doesn’t mean your LED strips are.

Correct. Without touting ours, I 'll just say that the power supplies (the 240/120 volt part) are UL cert, and are 2 meters away from the water. It's not that hard to specify UL cert from China, it just costs more.

your HOG line

I only want to cover safety issues, sorry.

SantaMonica · Aug 10, 2018

After re-reading my posts above, I see it might not be clear that I'm referring to Chinese lights in general, and not CW or SB products in particular. CW and SB might change things at any time.

I'll be doing a special write-up on Chinese lights in general, including some sample purchases and tests from ebay, to help DIY people choose the safest route. But hopefully makers of pre-made units will follow my lead, and make use of the safety info too.

robert a millen · Aug 11, 2018

Finhead said:
I made a AS for my Red Sea Reefer Nano (21 gal) from a Tfal acrylic storage bin a piece of 1/2" PVC pipe a mesh screen (for kniting I believe) a grow light and a Maxijet powerhead. Just drilled a few holes with a reg hole saw, just have to go slow. Taped off where I wanted the light to shine thorugh and painted the outside black.

What size tfal did you use?

laverda · Aug 15, 2018

SantaMonica said:
They are printed on each power supply. The Chinese pay for it, not us. UL supplies cost 3x those that are just CE. However if there is an injury, the first thing the PI attorney will look for is UL certification where the 240/120 volts travel to (at least here in the U.S.)

I was referring to Chinese grow lights in general; sorry if it sounded like yours in particular. But yours are Chinese, unless of course SB has a factory you can go watch them making them in. But still, it's the path of 240/120 volts that is of importance, and I 'm just trying to protect people.

Correct, for pre-made units. DIY is fine. But a customer of a pre-made unit is assuming safety. As as an electrical engineer, and referring to 240/120 volts a few inches from saltwater, in a non-hermetically sealed housing, especially with non-UL certification, I am willing to call them "potentially unsafe".

I disagree. Splash has little to do with salt creep. Once the salt reaches the 240/120, there is going to be a short. And, the enclosures used by the Chinese are meant for freshwater gardens, light rain, or placement over indoor growing plants. There is no salt creep there, so it did not need to be addressed.

I certainly agree. But salt creep occurs everywhere.

Warranties are great for getting filters back up and running, yes. But they are unrelated to liability coverage. And I can't speak of ours on this forum.

That's my point. Those housing are not hermetically sealed; salt creep travels to the power supply on the inside. If the supply was 2 meters away, with only 10 volts going to the lights, and if the DC side had a 3000 volt isolation from the AC side, then I'd say it was "safer", even without UL cert.

Correct. Without touting ours, I 'll just say that the power supplies (the 240/120 volt part) are UL cert, and are 2 meters away from the water. It's not that hard to specify UL cert from China, it just costs more.

I only want to cover safety issues, sorry.

Wow!
I bought one of your up flow scrubbers and it was the cheapest peice of crap I have ever seen in the hobby! Two cherp plastic food containers with an air line, a peice of mesh, some magnets and a few LEDs. The lights corroded very quickly. The magnets were not strong enough to hold it in 1/4" acrylic. I have kept my mouth shut about it up till this time but to see you two bashing each other here in a DIY thread is anoying. Not to mentiong bShing people trying to help others. Most of the DIY scrubbers I have seen are higher quality than the trash santa monica scrubber I had for a short time. I sold it at a 50% loss and was happy to be rid of it. I has since made several large ATSs for a fraction of what I paid for the one I bought. Scrubbers are easy to make and do mot meed to ne complicated. Hang a mesh in an overflow box and light it is one way. It costs $1 more than the light you chose to use. I find red and blue LED grow lights work great and are inexpensive. You can get one large enough to ligh a full sheet of mesh for around $25.00.

robert a millen · Aug 15, 2018

laverda said:
Wow!
I bought one of your up flow scrubbers and it was the cheapest peice of crap I have ever seen in the hobby! Two cherp plastic food containers with an air line, a peice of mesh, some magnets and a few LEDs. The lights corroded very quickly. The magnets were not strong enough to hold it in 1/4" acrylic. I have kept my mouth shut about it up till this time but to see you two bashing each other here in a DIY thread is anoying. Not to mentiong bShing people trying to help others. Most of the DIY scrubbers I have seen are higher quality than the trash santa monica scrubber I had for a short time. I sold it at a 50% loss and was happy to be rid of it. I has since made several large ATSs for a fraction of what I paid for the one I bought. Scrubbers are easy to make and do mot meed to ne complicated. Hang a mesh in an overflow box and light it is one way. It costs $1 more than the light you chose to use. I find red and blue LED grow lights work great and are inexpensive. You can get one large enough to ligh a full sheet of mesh for around $25.00.

This was a bit more negative than it needed to be. Credit where credit is due, SantaMonica's input is valuable and has helped shape how I approach building my own scrubbers. With that said, I agree with most of Laverda's points. Especially for the price Santa Monica charges. The quality Isnt special.

ReefWithCare · Aug 20, 2018

I don’t understand why y’all gotta bad mouth each other so much. Both of you make a good product and perfectly valid for a customer’s need. You can dump an IP65 and 66 light in water and nothing should happen. They are used in landscaping to operate in rain and snow outside 24-7 .

The UL thing was same thing that BRS tried to push several yrs ago when trying to scare ppl away from Chinese Black Units like Mars Aquas and several ppl on this forum just laughed it off.

Now that all being said. For a nano tank, Santa Monica sells a Drop Scrubber which works really well for small tanks and AIO. I remember CJ's Aquarium putting a drop scrubber in his JBJ 45.