Natural or Dose?

[steven REYNOLDS]

I am trying to keep my reef tank..mainly sps and small fish all natural. I have a refugium, uv, and reactor and all parameters are good but the MG is a little high-1460. Has any one had any luck without dosing? OR is it one of those things that is sometimes just needed?

 

[hart24601]

All natural? So is that not using any electricity? That would be interesting to see.

For dosing, Randy has a great article somewhere, but if you have a decent amount of stony corals you will have to dose at some point unless you like changing 50% or more of the water every day.

 

[redfishbluefish]

I'm not sure what you mean by all natural.

As far as magnesium, it is consumed at a relatively low or slow rate, which possibly can be maintained by the magnesium in your salt, and with frequent water changes. With a Mag of 1460, it would appear that this is the case.

Now as far as the other two guys we need to grow calcified corals.....that is alkalinity and calcium....they can't be maintained with a well established tank by water changes alone. You might be able to get away with it when you have but a few frags, but eventually you'll need to do something to maintain these two guys.

The three most common ways of doing this are:
Calcium reactor
Kalkwasser
Two part dosing

And that is where I'm scratching my head of whether or not you consider any of these "all natural."

 

[d2mini]

You need to test your parameters and the best levels to shoot for in the beginning are those of natural sea water.
If you want to keep coral, especially SPS, then you need to do whatever it takes to keep these levels where they should be, and very consistent... no swings.
Whether you do that with 2-part dosing, a calcium reactor, kalk in your ato... its up to you.

 

[Mark426]

I second what D2 said. If you want to keep SPS you really have to dose. ALK/CA levels need to be as stable as possible and to a lesser extent MG and thats just not easily done without dosing. Save yourself lots of trouble, heartache and money by getting a dosing unit.

However...you can get by without dosing by creating a tank filled with zoas /palys and the like. Just keep up with good sized water changes every week. Something to think about.
Mark

p.s. The UV is not that useful (unless you have a monster unit) and is just another thing prone to failure.

 

[steven REYNOLDS]

I'm not sure what you mean by all natural.

As far as magnesium, it is consumed at a relatively low or slow rate, which possibly can be maintained by the magnesium in your salt, and with frequent water changes. With a Mag of 1460, it would appear that this is the case.

Now as far as the other two guys we need to grow calcified corals.....that is alkalinity and calcium....they can't be maintained with a well established tank by water changes alone. You might be able to get away with it when you have but a few frags, but eventually you'll need to do something to maintain these two guys.

The three most common ways of doing this are:
Calcium reactor
Kalkwasser
Two part dosing

And that is where I'm scratching my head of whether or not you consider any of these "all natural."

I am still a newb in the hobby, but I meant the less intervention as possible for "natural". I know there will need to be some dosing, I just want to be confident I can pull the excess out via skimmer so as not to pollute overtime. I just took out the protein skimmer and put in refugium. I use red sea which already has a high content of Mg. My water changes are 15% every two weeks for a 65 gal- keeping SG at 1.025. I just introduced a small frag of birds nest.

 

[steven REYNOLDS]

I second what D2 said. If you want to keep SPS you really have to dose. ALK/CA levels need to be as stable as possible and to a lesser extent MG and thats just not easily done without dosing. Save yourself lots of trouble, heartache and money by getting a dosing unit.

However...you can get by without dosing by creating a tank filled with zoas /palys and the like. Just keep up with good sized water changes every week. Something to think about.
Mark

p.s. The UV is not that useful (unless you have a monster unit) and is just another thing prone to failure.

I have two sets of zoa's so far. There in the main tank. And by "filled" you mean FILLED...

 

[d2mini]

I am still a newb in the hobby, but I meant the less intervention as possible for "natural". I know there will need to be some dosing, I just want to be confident I can pull the excess out via skimmer so as not to pollute overtime. I just took out the protein skimmer and put in refugium. I use red sea which already has a high content of Mg. My water changes are 15% every two weeks for a 65 gal- keeping SG at 1.025. I just introduced a small frag of birds nest.

In that respect, I try to run my tank as natural as possible.
The only thing in my reactors right now is carbon. I use a calcium reactor for alk and calc, and my chaeto and protein skimmer take care of my filtering.
But I most definitely need that calcium reactor. As stated above, there is really no way around it with sps/lps. Unless you are doing 90% daily water changes where the new saltwater will be putting those elements back. ;)

 

[Mark426]

I might leave in the skimmer in. The easiest way to win at this game is to find a successful tank here that is similar to what you want to achieve and follow the same methods they use. After quite time you can adjust things for your particular setup.

 

[steven REYNOLDS]

In that respect, I try to run my tank as natural as possible.
The only thing in my reactors right now is carbon. I use a calcium reactor for alk and calc, and my chaeto and protein skimmer take care of my filtering.
But I most definitely need that calcium reactor. As stated above, there is really no way around it with sps/lps. Unless you are doing 90% daily water changes where the new saltwater will be putting those elements back. ;)

So what would you say about my current setup.
65 gal with 15gal sump converted to a refugium-with 2 socks- with a phosban reactor and uv, both in the return pump section. I took out my HOB protein skimmer. 15 % H2O change every two to three weeks. No doseing; all parameters good except Mg @ 1460. I do use red sea salt

 

[steven REYNOLDS]

I know when i get more sps/ lps i will need to target feed and dose but as for now i only have a zoa, hammer head, green star , couple mushrooms, acan brain, and a small frag of birds nest.

 

[Mark426]

The point of dosing is to continuously maintain your levels at a set point. Not to allow them to slowly diminish and then bump them back up with a water change. Softies do OK with what your planning but many LPS and most all SPS dont like that at all. Just test often and dont let your levels, esp alk, change much at all. You will have to be the judge.

p.s. why so resistant to dosing?

 

[d2mini]

If you really want to go natural, try to get rid of the gfo/phosban and grow chaeto instead.
I'd run a protein skimmer before a ran a gfo reactor. Have you tested your phoshphates?
And are you testing alk, mag and calcium? It doesn't matter what corals you have now, you should be testing. If you are low, you will need to start a dosing regimen.

 

[NicksMixedReef]

I'm not sure how much a 15 gallon refugium would do.

 

[d2mini]

I'm not sure how much a 15 gallon refugium would do.

Yeah, no idea.
I have approx 45g refugium with nothing but chaeto as part of my 350g total system and it's kicking butt.
No gfo. Nitrates are less than .5 ppm and p04 is .01
Tank has been back up and running for 7 months now.
http://www.everydayreef.com/blog/2015/6/6/chaetomorpha-algae

 

[NicksMixedReef]

Yeah, no idea.
I have approx 45g refugium with nothing but chaeto as part of my 350g total system and it's kicking butt.
No gfo. Nitrates are less than .5 ppm and p04 is .01
Tank has been back up and running for 7 months now.
http://www.everydayreef.com/blog/2015/6/6/chaetomorpha-algae

I'm not sure what you're getting at?

 

[reefnfeef]

dose

 

[d2mini]

I'm not sure what you're getting at?

I'm explaining that my refugium really seems to be keeping the nutrients levels almost non-existent.
This is off the topic of dosing, but it goes along with keeping a "natural" tank.