Need advice on dinos

[Maho.B]

Hello. After a hiccup with low nitrates a little while ago, everything thing in my year and a half old reed tank is going well. Parameters are stable, nutrients are pretty much where I'm wanting them, and all but one coral is looking great and growing (the one exception is a sunset monti that has turned a Dean grey/brown color, but is still encrusting pretty quickly so not sure about that) so things are looking great. Except for the type of Dinoflagellates that live in the sand bed and become brown as the day goes on. From what I've read, this type is not toxic, but look is something I don't care for. Are there any tips to help eliminate this type of dino? With how everything is doing I would prefer to avoid a 3 day blackout if possible. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Brian W]

I don't believe we can entirely elimate them, we can just keep them at bay with watching out nutrients level and making sure they don't 0 out completely.

I've posted this on a few threads recently so I'll copy and paste this here:

Mack's group on Facebook is a good place to start to learn about Dinos and how to beat them. https://www.facebook.com/groups/macksreef/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT

I've had Dinos a few times so far. What I've learned is I needed to dose nitrate and phosphate daily and test daily to keep both elevated.

Once I can constantly keep them elevated the dinos will slowly fade away and green algae will grow and out compete the Dinos.

I've struggled with dinos for 2 years straight once due to low nutrients. Once I figured out I needed to stay on top of my nutrients it was easier to beat dinos. I still constantly struggle with keeping nutrients elevated but I make sure to regularly dose nitrates and phosphates as well as feed heavily. As long as I see some algae grow on my over flow I know I'm good.

I've also recently learned this year to feed more protein heavy foods such as pellets to bring up the nutrients. I feed LRS frozen food daily, and no matter how much I fed my nutrients would not rise. Once I started adding pellets into my frozen food mix I would see some small patches of green hair algae on my rocks. My nutrients still aren't very high on my test kit, about 2-3 ppm no3 and 0.06 ppm po4, but if I have algae I know im.

My tangs will eat the algae and I'm happy.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

Hello. After a hiccup with low nitrates a little while ago, everything thing in my year and a half old reed tank is going well. Parameters are stable, nutrients are pretty much where I'm wanting them, and all but one coral is looking great and growing (the one exception is a sunset monti that has turned a Dean grey/brown color, but is still encrusting pretty quickly so not sure about that) so things are looking great. Except for the type of Dinoflagellates that live in the sand bed and become brown as the day goes on. From what I've read, this type is not toxic, but look is something I don't care for. Are there any tips to help eliminate this type of dino? With how everything is doing I would prefer to avoid a 3 day blackout if possible. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.

Dealing with dinos as we speak, haha. What are your parameters? Also, do you have a microscope or photos of your tank? It can help identify the kind that you have.

Some tips you can do to get rid of them would be:
Raise nitrates and phosphates
Slowly raise your temperature to 82 degrees Fahrenheit
UV Sterilizer
I believe dosing silicates is one way to get rid of them too

 

[Maho.B]

Thanks, interesting about the pellets. I feed 3 different types of frozen food and rarely pellets, and awhile back I couldn't get nutrients up either, comments were to feed more and it barely made a dent. I will incorporate pellets into the feedings more often. Nitrate had been my issue, it was difficult to get it above 3 or 4. About a month ago my nitrates bottomed out but my phosphate didn't move, I got some advice from Randy on this forum saying to use ammonium bicarbonate, which I now am, and it's been fantastic. Nitrates are coming back and the corals look great.

I don't have pics of it right now, I'm not home. But it is they type that go away at night and the sand bed is nice in the early morning, then by mid day most of the sand areas are brown. My parameters are stable (except nitrate as I am still dosing ammonia to get them a bit higher) at:

Alk: 7.5 (max swing of 0.2 in a 24 hr period)
Phos: .09
Nitrate: 7.2
Calcium: 440
Magnesium: 1340
Salinity: 35
Temp: 78

Also, the majority of the corals I have appreciate medium to high flow, there is no difference between the amount of brown in higher flow to lower flow areas of the sandbed, doesn't seem to care.

 

[Brian W]

Thanks, interesting about the pellets. I feed 3 different types of frozen food and rarely pellets, and awhile back I couldn't get nutrients up either, comments were to feed more and it barely made a dent. I will incorporate pellets into the feedings more often. Nitrate had been my issue, it was difficult to get it above 3 or 4. About a month ago my nitrates bottomed out but my phosphate didn't move, I got some advice from Randy on this forum saying to use ammonium bicarbonate, which I now am, and it's been fantastic. Nitrates are coming back and the corals look great.

I don't have pics of it right now, I'm not home. But it is they type that go away at night and the sand bed is nice in the early morning, then by mid day most of the sand areas are brown. My parameters are stable (except nitrate as I am still dosing ammonia to get them a bit higher) at:

Alk: 7.5 (max swing of 0.2 in a 24 hr period)
Phos: .09
Nitrate: 7.2
Calcium: 440
Magnesium: 1340
Salinity: 35
Temp: 78

Also, the majority of the corals I have appreciate medium to high flow, there is no difference between the amount of brown in higher flow to lower flow areas of the sandbed, doesn't seem to care.

Your no3 and po4 look great, just keep them elevated and the dinos will go away in due time. People use uv sterilizer as well. I don't have much experience with then though.

 

[Maho.B]

Your no3 and po4 look great, just keep them elevated and the dinos will go away in due time. People use uv sterilizer as well. I don't have much experience with then though.

Thanks, the ammonium has been awesome for getting Nitrate up. Everything I have read says the type of Dino's in the sand bed like mine do not free swim at night so a UV is not very helpful on this type unfortunately.

 

[CreamCityCorals]

I have dealt with this strain on the sand bed a few years back. Would need microscope evidence to confirm this before any action. I used a 72hr blackout method with heavy uv. Directing the outlet of the UV to the inlet of my skimmer.

If you time this well you can actually only miss two light cycles. The system needs to be completely black. The extended length of time will force them into the water column where the high flow uv and skimmer will take care of them.

The key is to figure out why you are having these guys. Typically dont see this in an established bacterially balance system. I would consider adding some live sand from aquabiomics and manually syphoning out the colonies of dinos you can visually see. If blackout procedure is of use to you please reach out, happy to share what has worked for us. But realize this is a quick cure and does not fix the root cause.

 

[Maho.B]

I have dealt with this strain on the sand bed a few years back. Would need microscope evidence to confirm this before any action. I used a 72hr blackout method with heavy uv. Directing the outlet of the UV to the inlet of my skimmer.

If you time this well you can actually only miss two light cycles. The system needs to be completely black. The extended length of time will force them into the water column where the high flow uv and skimmer will take care of them.

The key is to figure out why you are having these guys. Typically dont see this in an established bacterially balance system. I would consider adding some live sand from aquabiomics and manually syphoning out the colonies of dinos you can visually see. If blackout procedure is of use to you please reach out, happy to share what has worked for us. But realize this is a quick cure and does not fix the root cause.

Thank you for this. The only thing I can think of as root cause would be back in June of 2024 when both my phosphate and Nitrate went to zero for a week or so. Other than that the system has always been healthy. I will get a microscope and see what I find that way as the next step. I was curious as to whether or not siphoning the thin top layer would help remove them. Thanks.

 

[CreamCityCorals]

Thank you for this. The only thing I can think of as root cause would be back in June of 2024 when both my phosphate and Nitrate went to zero for a week or so. Other than that the system has always been healthy. I will get a microscope and see what I find that way as the next step. I was curious as to whether or not siphoning the thin top layer would help remove them. Thanks.

Absolutely. I’d syphon them out. Then if you can get some of the AB sand that will help to diversify.

 

[Reef.]

Hello. After a hiccup with low nitrates a little while ago, everything thing in my year and a half old reed tank is going well. Parameters are stable, nutrients are pretty much where I'm wanting them, and all but one coral is looking great and growing (the one exception is a sunset monti that has turned a Dean grey/brown color, but is still encrusting pretty quickly so not sure about that) so things are looking great. Except for the type of Dinoflagellates that live in the sand bed and become brown as the day goes on. From what I've read, this type is not toxic, but look is something I don't care for. Are there any tips to help eliminate this type of dino? With how everything is doing I would prefer to avoid a 3 day blackout if possible. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.

Silicate dosing to form diiatoms to out compete the dinos can work, also if you can source a 1 micron filter sock, vacuuming the sand into the sock, then replacing the water can work wonders as removing the dinos is the aim to help other life forms taking the dinos place in the tank.

Needs to be done as much as you can, couple times a day is ideal, if you see improvement within 2-3 days, carry on for another week.

 

[Maho.B]

Would you recommend stopping water changes? I normally do a 20% water change every two weeks, I don't have a 1 micron sock, but could simply siphon layers of them out in small batches instead of one water change, spread it over several?

 

[Reef.]

Would you recommend stopping water changes? I normally do a 20% water change every two weeks, I don't have a 1 micron sock, but could simply siphon layers of them out in small batches instead of one water change, spread it over several?

Not ideal as they multiply so quickly you are not going to get the numbers down fast enough with just removing 20% of water over 2 weeks, you need to be doing 20% daily really to get an effect.

You could try the silicate method, dosing enough silicate to cause a diatom bloom, holding it for a couple of weeks then stopping the silicates, you can either buy liquid glass or Sponge XL, liquid glass is much stronger, add a few drops a day, keep upping the drops until you see diatoms.

A 20% water change is not going to be an issue,, if you want to do it, do it then start the process.

Though if you have to buy silicate you could just buy a 1 micron sock. Fighting them on as many fronts as possible is the best way to hopefully be successful.

 

[Science/G]

Coral snow, carbon dosing and microbacter 7, along with a UV and manual removal worked for me.

 

[Reef.]

Coral snow, carbon dosing and microbacter 7, along with a UV and manual removal worked for me.

Agree with all apart from the carbon dosing, that is said to be a cause of cyano and dinos, many people report cyano after starting carbon dosing.

 

[Maho.B]

Thanks everyone for the good info, appreciate it!

 

[BryanM]

Thanks, the ammonium has been awesome for getting Nitrate up. Everything I have read says the type of Dino's in the sand bed like mine do not free swim at night so a UV is not very helpful on this type unfortunately.

You can either get a microscrope to ID them, or just observe.

Ostreopsis dinos go everywhere. sand, rock, glass. But they do enter the water column at night, and therefore that dino is VERY easily dealt with using UV.

 

[Maho.B]

These are definitely not Ostreopsis, they only live in the sand bed. Nothing on the rocks or glass. It's crazy how the sand is mostly white in the morning before lights, then pretty brown by midday. Thanks.