Need help! “Straight up not having a good time”

[Swfiend]

So I’ve been having a real rough go at it with this tank and I was stupid and trusted a LFS that claimed they did a full QTd on some fish and I put them directly into our display with fish we have had for years.

We had an outbreak of ich maybe velvet and it took out 2 of the new fish right away then 9 or 10 days later I lost 2 fish I’ve had for 5-8 years


Rewind here and On 10/31:
We started immediately treating the tank with polyp lab medic at first sign of spots and then started h202 dosing per humblefish method once our doser arrived 11/8

My yellowtang I’ve had since 2015 was looking really bad for a few days but he’s back to looking normal acting normal and eating like a pig

I’m pretty sure we also had an outbreak of flukes and possible Brook aswell as my clowns all started acting sick and within a day my female clown I raised from an 1/4” fry and an angel both passed. Both were in the tank 5years (angel) and 8 years (clownfish)

I rounded up the rest of the clowns And my naso as they were all hiding in the shadows and acting sick. Not eating flicking and just looking like they weren’t doing do well.

I gave them a peroxide dip as a last ditch effort and “stuff”

came off of them their breathing is less labored and they are a little more active but my naso now looks like this.

The big White spots are on the tank not him but that “fuzziness” across his bottom half.

Is it irritation or something worse?

I don’t have a hospital system so I’m limited to treating him in the tank/sump

Sorry for the long winded post but it’s how I’m coping with loosing fish I’ve had longer than my kids.

 

[Debramb]

I’m so sorry for your losses, mine are all long time too, looking at my notes, 2012. Your Naso is pretty and I hope these guys can help!
Debra

 

[Swfiend]

I have some fish in the tank I’ve had since 2009 when my wife and I got our first tank together and picked “our fish”
I’m trying to figure out a hospital tank situation but don’t know how big I’d need for everyone and I’m doubtful I’d be able to keep it up long enough to fallow out the system as we have a toddler and newborn without extra space for another set up

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So I’ve been having a real rough go at it with this tank and I was stupid and trusted a LFS that claimed they did a full QTd on some fish and I put them directly into our display with fish we have had for years.

We had an outbreak of ich maybe velvet and it took out 2 of the new fish right away then 9 or 10 days later I lost 2 fish I’ve had for 5-8 years


Rewind here and On 10/31:
We started immediately treating the tank with polyp lab medic at first sign of spots and then started h202 dosing per humblefish method once our doser arrived 11/8

My yellowtang I’ve had since 2015 was looking really bad for a few days but he’s back to looking normal acting normal and eating like a pig

I’m pretty sure we also had an outbreak of flukes and possible Brook aswell as my clowns all started acting sick and within a day my female clown I raised from an 1/4” fry and an angel both passed. Both were in the tank 5years (angel) and 8 years (clownfish)

I rounded up the rest of the clowns And my naso as they were all hiding in the shadows and acting sick. Not eating flicking and just looking like they weren’t doing do well.

I gave them a peroxide dip as a last ditch effort and “stuff”

came off of them their breathing is less labored and they are a little more active but my naso now looks like this.

The big White spots are on the tank not him but that “fuzziness” across his bottom half.

Is it irritation or something worse?

I don’t have a hospital system so I’m limited to treating him in the tank/sump

Sorry for the long winded post but it’s how I’m coping with loosing fish I’ve had longer than my kids.

Sorry to hear all that.

Some key points:

1) Ich, velvet, flukes and bacterial infections all tend to look very similar in late stages. In this case, proper diagnosis is going to be difficult.

2) In tank treatments that are invertebrate safe will not work in severe infections. Neither H2O2 or Polyp Lab Medic can cure bad infections. You also must be careful in that Polyp Lab Medic is just a peroxide salt, so cannot be used in conjunction with H2O2 for fear of overdosing. Shrimp are usually the first animals to die if it is overdosed.

3) Once fish loss has begun, it is difficult to stop in time to prevent further loss.

Can you post a video of the remaining fish?

In the end though, I see you don't have a treatment tank. Any advice I can give you at this point is going to require one....either remove the invertebrates from the display or move the fish out, whichever is easier. Only flukes can be treated for in tanks with invertebrates present, and this doesn't sound like flukes (pending my seeing a video though).

You can set up a treatment tank "on the fly" - I've seen people do it in plastic totes even.


Jay

 

[Gill the 3rd]

I know exactly how you are feeling and Im sorry it happened to you. I had a well established reef tank with fish I had for many years. A new LFS opened up and they claimed they quarantined their fish with copper and prazi. They all looked healthy so I bought some and added to my tank. A week later I had a velvet outbreak and lost 2/3 of my fish over a 2 day period. Had to rip apart my tank to catch all the remaining fish and do the copper treatment and fallow period. The two fish I lost that really stung were a yellow tang I had for 5 or 6 years and a porcupine puffer that I had for many years that I had nursed back to health from a bad situation at another LFS. Of course this happened right after the Hawaii ban, so the $30 yellow tang was no more.

If it wasn't for all the time and money I had invested, and that I still had some fish and corals to take care of, I would have quit. Many years later I'm glad I didn't. Just hang in there and it will get better.

I also never trust any source that says they QT unless I know their exact procedure. I suspect many LFS say they qt, when in reality they just keep copper at a certain level to suppress (not kill) any ich or velvet in the system. I will never make that mistake again.

 

[Swfiend]

Sorry to hear all that.

Some key points:

1) Ich, velvet, flukes and bacterial infections all tend to look very similar in late stages. In this case, proper diagnosis is going to be difficult.

2) In tank treatments that are invertebrate safe will not work in severe infections. Neither H2O2 or Polyp Lab Medic can cure bad infections. You also must be careful in that Polyp Lab Medic is just a peroxide salt, so cannot be used in conjunction with H2O2 for fear of overdosing. Shrimp are usually the first animals to die if it is overdosed.

3) Once fish loss has begun, it is difficult to stop in time to prevent further loss.

Can you post a video of the remaining fish?

In the end though, I see you don't have a treatment tank. Any advice I can give you at this point is going to require one....either remove the invertebrates from the display or move the fish out, whichever is easier. Only flukes can be treated for in tanks with invertebrates present, and this doesn't sound like flukes (pending my seeing a video though).

You can set up a treatment tank "on the fly" - I've seen people do it in plastic totes even.


Jay

We finished the medic and continued with dosing h202

The naso only developed that discoloration after the peroxide bath prior to it he was lethargic and hiding a lot now he’s swimming around in the sump he does some fin flicking here and there

I have arranged another tank available to move them to but I cannot copper that tank is it possible to treat them then transfer to other tank while I fallow our 300? How big of a treatment tank would I need for 8 chromis 2 squirrel fish a Randall’s goby yellowtang 3 clowns and the naso without causing them additional stress?

 

[dank.reefer]

It looks like you have some live rock in that sump with your tang. I would take that rock and put it in a HOB filter on the back of a another tank(50g or so), fill the tank using tank water and add an air sponge filter (now you have a hospital tank). Then start copper treatment in the new hospital tank. After copper treatment then you can add couprisorb and carbon to remove traces of copper from the hospital and turn it into straight observation for the 76 days you will need to fallow the display to rid it of infection. Just had to do this myself last year. The LR used in the hospital cannot go back into the display if corals are kept there. At no time should copper be introduced into a tank wit corals or other inverts for that matter. I use copper power and test it frequently with a Hanna copper checker.

 

[Swfiend]

This morning I found our smallest clown didn’t make it thru the night. He was looking real bad lastnight and I think I did him in with a fw bath he was breathing real fast after the dip but he was laying on the bottom when I went and checked them today

Side note the naso is looking better

 

[Jay Hemdal]

We finished the medic and continued with dosing h202

The naso only developed that discoloration after the peroxide bath prior to it he was lethargic and hiding a lot now he’s swimming around in the sump he does some fin flicking here and there

I have arranged another tank available to move them to but I cannot copper that tank is it possible to treat them then transfer to other tank while I fallow our 300? How big of a treatment tank would I need for 8 chromis 2 squirrel fish a Randall’s goby yellowtang 3 clowns and the naso without causing them additional stress?

The naso is showing pretty vague symptoms; some diffuse mottled coloration, glassy eyes and slightly rapid breathing. Could be flukes, but also could be a protozoan of some sort..

The clown in the back, for a fleeting second that I saw it, looks like it has stringy feces and may have Brooklynella. Can you post a clear video of the clown?

Jay

 

[Swfiend]

The naso is showing pretty vague symptoms; some diffuse mottled coloration, glassy eyes and slightly rapid breathing. Could be flukes, but also could be a protozoan of some sort..

The clown in the back, for a fleeting second that I saw it, looks like it has stringy feces and may have Brooklynella. Can you post a clear video of the clown?

Jay

How would you suggest treating the naso?

I’ll take a video of the remaining clown and naso now

 

[Jay Hemdal]

How would you suggest treating the naso?

I’ll take a video of the remaining clown and naso now

That's the trouble - without a firm diagnosis, there really isn't a clear treatment path to take. Maybe I'll see more with the clownfish video.

Jay

 

[Swfiend]

Here is a video of them. @Jay Hemdal

 

[tzabor10]

sorry to hear about your troubles. I can relate. I respectfully disagree with blaming the LFS. IMHO all fish are carrying diseases even after copper and other treatments. If they are stressed, these can rise up And cause an outbreak. I use a 40 breeder to fatten up fish for at least 3 weeks. Get them used to you, the foods you use, the water and maintenance. Then they will have a better chance of surviving the social stress of a new tank.
You got this, don’t give up

 

[Spare time]

I would consider taking the inverts out and running hyposalinity in the display tank.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I can't make a definitive diagnosis from the clownfish video. Seeing the naso again, I saw some fin flicking which can be a sign of flukes. I agree with @Spare time that a hyposalinity treatment in the absence of invertebrates might be the best way to go.

Jay

 

[Swfiend]

I can't make a definitive diagnosis from the clownfish video. Seeing the naso again, I saw some fin flicking which can be a sign of flukes. I agree with @Spare time that a hyposalinity treatment in the absence of invertebrates might be the best way to go.

Jay

I have ruby rally pro on hand would a dip be worth doing for him? All the rest of the fish in the tank seem to be ok and eating like pigs.


to do hypo I would have to remove all my snails coral gorgs shrimp and starfish correct?
@Jay Hemdal

 

[JayM]

I have ruby rally pro on hand would a dip be worth doing for him? All the rest of the fish in the tank seem to be ok and eating like pigs.


to do hypo I would have to remove all my snails coral shrimp and starfish correct?

I'm not experienced enough to give you any advice on what you should or shouldn't do, but I had a Clown that was acting just as yours is, and Ruby Rally Pro did nothing for the fish. She died less than a week after symptoms started.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have ruby rally pro on hand would a dip be worth doing for him? All the rest of the fish in the tank seem to be ok and eating like pigs.


to do hypo I would have to remove all my snails coral gorgs shrimp and starfish correct?
@Jay Hemdal

Yes - that's the drawback to hyposalinity, all invertebrates, corals and macroalgae needs to be removed first.

Jay

 

[Swfiend]

Yes - that's the drawback to hyposalinity, all invertebrates, corals and macroalgae needs to be removed first.

Jay

How low would you suggest and hold for how long?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

How low would you suggest and hold for how long?

Typically, fishless fallow periods for invertebrates is a minimum of 45 days at 81 F. or 60 days at lower temperatures. Hyposalinity for the fish is run for 30 days beyond when the symptoms went away.

Jay