Need help deciding…

[Murica]

Option 1 (currently in sump)
Some rock, small area for red ogo too grow, some sand (dsb), and a protein skimmer

Option 2
Remove the protein skimmer, add rock, sand, and have a bigger area for the algae to grow

Basically, should I have a large refugium or keep the skimmer in. It’s a large skimmer and is pretty efficient.

Objective:
Nutrient removal

Other things to note:
I also have an algae scrubber
My tank is nutrient heavy since I started off as a Fowlr. I’m making changes for better nutrient export, but it’s a slow process. I have seen improvements since adding in rock, algae, and algae turf scrubber 2+ months ago.

 

[Subsea]

If your priority is nutrient export, you will not get much with a refugium. I run cryptic refugium and a mud filter to recycle nutrients into live food.

 

[Murica]

If your priority is nutrient export, you will not get much with a refugium. I run cryptic refugium and a mud filter to recycle nutrients into live food.

Great, thank you

 

[Miami Reef]

Definitely keep the skimmer. It is amazing at organic, aeration, heavy metal, and bacterial removal.

 

[flashsmith]

I know I'm in the minority in the hobby but I try my best to keep my sump spotless. I did a fuge for over a year. It took that long for it to grow enough to fill in the space. By then my sump was full of detritus and all kinds of other nasty stuff just sitting there breaking down and surely adding nutrients back in the tank that I was trying to get rid of. This sounds disgusting but take a dump and let it simmer for a week.lol That's how I look at dirty sumps. Alot of nutrients going right back into your system. Ultimately I saw no advantage of a fuge for nutrient export if you're already skimming. It's either one or the other. Refugiums are messy and pulling everything out to clean isn't ideal in my opinion.

 

[Subsea]

Carbon dosing with protein skimming will export much.

I have been skimmerless for > 40 years. Protein skimmers remove the live food that grows filter feeders:
flame scallops, sea apples and sponges of many colors.

 

[VintageReefer]

I used skimmer, gfo, and cheato. And replaced them all with an algae scrubber. My sump is 3” sand bed, live rock and a scrubber

2+ years no water change

 

[VintageReefer]

My scrubber killed all my cheato and eventually sucked all the excess phosphate out of the rocks. Took a while but it worked

 

[Digimes]

Option 1 (currently in sump)
Some rock, small area for red ogo too grow, some sand (dsb), and a protein skimmer

Option 2
Remove the protein skimmer, add rock, sand, and have a bigger area for the algae to grow

Basically, should I have a large refugium or keep the skimmer in. It’s a large skimmer and is pretty efficient.

Objective:
Nutrient removal

Other things to note:
I also have an algae scrubber
My tank is nutrient heavy since I started off as a Fowlr. I’m making changes for better nutrient export, but it’s a slow process. I have seen improvements since adding in rock, algae, and algae turf scrubber 2+ months ago.

Maybe or maybe not but first question is size of tank and size of sump?

 

[Digimes]

Carbon dosing with protein skimming will export much.

I have been skimmerless for > 40 years. Protein skimmers remove the live food that grows filter feeders:
flame scallops, sea apples and sponges of many colors.

I am really liking the tank to tank concept. Have you ever seen them placed side by side?

 

[Murica]

Maybe or maybe not but first question is size of tank and size of sump?

Tank is 450 and sump is 200 (really 150 because it’s not filled all the way up)

 

[Digimes]

150/200g sump is huge. My largest tank was 180g. I still prefer keeping a skimmer. Seems there would still be plenty of room for rock and a refugium with that. What all is in the tank now? Have you changed the feeding to incorporate corals? What have you added to break away from the FOWLER setup? I know a lot of people stay away from GSP and such but I always felt it help keep nutrients down when the back wall was covered. I also have used a basket in the main tank to hold cheato and used the tank lights during the day as added spread. How much rock is in tank now?

 

[Murica]

150/200g sump is huge. My largest tank was 180g. I still prefer keeping a skimmer. Seems there would still be plenty of room for rock and a refugium with that. What all is in the tank now? Have you changed the feeding to incorporate corals? What have you added to break away from the FOWLER setup? I know a lot of people stay away from GSP and such but I always felt it help keep nutrients down when the back wall was covered. I also have used a basket in the main tank to hold cheato and used the tank lights during the day as added spread. How much rock is in tank now?

Trying to feed less, only a few corals but going to add way more. Only about 23 fish but they’re larger species. Regarding the fowlr, i pretty much had everything minus the turf scrubber and the refugium, but rarely did water changes… Now i do weekly changes. I would love to put xenia in the sump but have had it get out of control and enter the display before.

Regarding rock, I have about 2-300 pounds total. Maybe more? Not sure, but it’s distributed well to maximize flow.

I think it’s just going to take time, but I hear both sides of the skimmer debate!

One thing i don’t have which would help is a roller mat, but with my setup that may be hard to add in

 

[Murica]

I know I'm in the minority in the hobby but I try my best to keep my sump spotless. I did a fuge for over a year. It took that long for it to grow enough to fill in the space. By then my sump was full of detritus and all kinds of other nasty stuff just sitting there breaking down and surely adding nutrients back in the tank that I was trying to get rid of. This sounds disgusting but take a dump and let it simmer for a week.lol That's how I look at dirty sumps. Alot of nutrients going right back into your system. Ultimately I saw no advantage of a fuge for nutrient export if you're already skimming. It's either one or the other. Refugiums are messy and pulling everything out to clean isn't ideal in my opinion.

Very good point! Thank you

 

[Murica]

I am really liking the tank to tank concept. Have you ever seen them placed side by side?

Me too, looks good

 

[Subsea]

I am really liking the tank to tank concept. Have you ever seen them placed side by side?

 

[Digimes]

But are the water supplies all interconnected?

 

[Bruttall]

I think it’s just going to take time, but I hear both sides of the skimmer debate!

One thing i don’t have which would help is a roller mat, but with my setup that may be hard to add in

With a tank that size, I recommend keeping the skimmer, forget about the rollermat, they remove too much nutrient that your coral will want. In my Experience the best "floss" type (Basically what a rollermat is) is polyfil pillow stuffing. I run that in a media cup in my sump, it's super cheap, and filters better than most socks that I have used.

The Skimmer does more than export nutrients, it also hyper-oxygenates the water and helps to keep PH balanced. With a proper size skimmer on your tank, the need for surface agitation in your display is greatly reduced. Most still prefer some surface agitation though for the shimmer effect it produces with the lights as the water ripples I guess.

I am not a fan of chasing numbers; each tank is different. If everything inside your tank is thriving and healthy, then test your water and keep track of your numbers, average them over a few weeks to months to get your tanks Ideal. STOP thinking the numbers SUGGESTED as parameters are Hard Line Goals, they are not, your tank is different and will react different. Most of those numbers "suggested" are by companies selling products to "adjust" your chemistry. Do you really think the entire ocean is a perfect balance of 8.4PH, 1400mag, 450calc, 78degrees temp?

I have found that most of my water chemistry being Spot On requires nothing more than starting with a good RO/DI unit to get 0 tds water, then using a good salt to mix with. I use IO Reef; my PH is consistently between 8.2 and 8.5 if I keep my specific gravity at 1.025 to 1.026.

Balance to me is not chasing numbers trying to get the median hobby perfection, balance is seeing where your tank thrives and keeping it there.

 

[Subsea]

But are the water supplies all interconnected?

No. The dual 55G tank stand was set up 3 years ago to process several hundred pounds of diver collected live rock. The only connection is they share the same air.

The two corner tanks are display tanks with cryptic refugiums & mud filters. The 75G display on the right has been set up for 25 years and was originally a Jaubert Plenum on top with a 30G algae/mud filter on bottom. Five years ago, I replaced Jaubert Plenum with reverse flow and reduced aragonite sand bed from 6” down to 2” and vegetable filter was replaced with base rock and seeded with cryptic sponges.

The 120G tank on left was set up 5 years ago: reverse flow ug filter on top with 40G cryptic refugium on bottom.

PS: I often connect the two display tanks for several hours to facilitate moving corals (livestock). between tanks.

 

[Sophie"s mom]

Option 1 (currently in sump)
Some rock, small area for red ogo too grow, some sand (dsb), and a protein skimmer

Option 2
Remove the protein skimmer, add rock, sand, and have a bigger area for the algae to grow

Basically, should I have a large refugium or keep the skimmer in. It’s a large skimmer and is pretty efficient.

Objective:
Nutrient removal

Other things to note:
I also have an algae scrubber
My tank is nutrient heavy since I started off as a Fowlr. I’m making changes for better nutrient export, but it’s a slow process. I have seen improvements since adding in rock, algae, and algae turf scrubber 2+ months ago.

Definitely keep the skimmer! It is an amazing piece of equipment.