Need help understanding ICP results

[Pudgeshambley]

The PDF file didn't translate to English but I think it is still readable. I have tried adding three peppermint shrimp but I never saw them again after the first night. Same thing happened with a candy cane shrimp a couple of months later. Corals seem to do okay. I have had a couple acans die and a chalice but then have other acans that are doing fine. I realize the issues that high phosphate and low nitrates can cause but would low iodine or anything else on the test affect shrimp or corals? Thanks for any help.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not see anything in the ICP that I would finger as the clear cause of what you report, but dosing a trace element mix such as Tropic Marine A and K at the recommended levels might be a useful step to try.

 

[Pudgeshambley]

I do not see anything in the ICP that I would finger as the clear cause of what you report, but dosing a trace element mix such as Tropic Marine A and K at the recommended levels might be a useful step to try.

Thank you. I did have a pair of clownfish that started bullying my yellow watchman Goby after being together for a year and I think killed my tailspot blenny. Is it possible they killed the shrimp?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you. I did have a pair of clownfish that started bullying my yellow watchman Goby after being together for a year and I think killed my tailspot blenny. Is it possible they killed the shrimp?

What species of clowns? How big of a tank?

 

[Pudgeshambley]

What species of clowns? How big of a tank?

Ocellaris. Orange storm clownfish. 45 gallon AIO so the display is technically 38 gallons.

 

[Pudgeshambley]

I do not see anything in the ICP that I would finger as the clear cause of what you report, but dosing a trace element mix such as Tropic Marine A and K at the recommended levels might be a useful step to try.

Could I dose all for reef or do you suggest only dosing A and K instead.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Could I dose all for reef or do you suggest only dosing A and K instead.

If you have a significant need for alk, then yes, AFR is fine. If you are not otherwise needing to dose alk, or like the method you are using, I'd use A and K.

In some ways, A and K is better since you can dose it independently of alk and calcium. Otherwise, the trace elements are tied to alk need.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ocellaris. Orange storm clownfish. 45 gallon AIO so the display is technically 38 gallons.

My ocellaris clowns never seemed to threaten other creatures in my tank, including shrimp, but yours may have been different.

 

[Idech]

If you have a significant need for alk, then yes, AFR is fine. If you are not otherwise needing to dose alk, or like the method you are using, I'd use A and K.

In some ways, A and K is better since you can dose it independently of alk and calcium. Otherwise, the trace elements are tied to alk need.

Does A and K contain the same traces elements as All for Reef?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Does A and K contain the same traces elements as All for Reef?

Trace elements, yes.

Not major ions such as calcium.

From Hans Werner:

Thank you very much for your trust in our products.

For a solution of Carbocalcium Powder with K+ and A- Elements please follow this instruction: For 1 l of Carbocalcium plus trace elements solution fill up 140 g of Carbocalcium Powder with RO water to 800 ml and dissolve as much powder as possible. Then add 100 ml of each K+ and A- Elements and dissolve the remaining Carbocalcium Powder completely, fill up to 1 l.

When dosed manually you also can add 10 ml of each K+ and A- Elements each 100 ml of Carbocalcium solution added.

This is effectively allowing you to create a concentrated version of 'All For Reef'.

Create a concentrated version of All For Reef by adding K+ and A- Elements to carbocalcium

I came across this on another forum. A member there claims to have got this email from Hans-Werner Balling regarding adding trace elements to Carbocalcium. He wrote: Thank you very much for your trust in our products. For a solution of Carbocalcium Powder with K+ and A- Elements please follow...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Pudgeshambley]

Trace elements, yes.

Not major ions such as calcium.

From Hans Werner:

Thank you very much for your trust in our products.

For a solution of Carbocalcium Powder with K+ and A- Elements please follow this instruction: For 1 l of Carbocalcium plus trace elements solution fill up 140 g of Carbocalcium Powder with RO water to 800 ml and dissolve as much powder as possible. Then add 100 ml of each K+ and A- Elements and dissolve the remaining Carbocalcium Powder completely, fill up to 1 l.

When dosed manually you also can add 10 ml of each K+ and A- Elements each 100 ml of Carbocalcium solution added.

This is effectively allowing you to create a concentrated version of 'All For Reef'.

Create a concentrated version of All For Reef by adding K+ and A- Elements to carbocalcium

I came across this on another forum. A member there claims to have got this email from Hans-Werner Balling regarding adding trace elements to Carbocalcium. He wrote: Thank you very much for your trust in our products. For a solution of Carbocalcium Powder with K+ and A- Elements please follow...

www.reef2reef.com

Is it possible to not have to dose anything? I do 10 percent water changes weekly and use Red Sea blue bucket salt. I was really hoping that would be enough. I don't want to grow acros but would like to be able to do LPS and some easier SPS like montipora.

 

[Luckki]

Did you use live rock? If so could it have been a hitch hiker that made them disappear. I had three damsels when I first started in the hobby that were being killed by a worm that was growing in the rock that I never saw till my last one was gone and I could not find it. I broke open the rock and saw a worm that was about 14 inches long eating the fish.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is it possible to not have to dose anything? I do 10 percent water changes weekly and use Red Sea blue bucket salt. I was really hoping that would be enough. I don't want to grow acros but would like to be able to do LPS and some easier SPS like montipora.

It's possible, certainly, but whether that is optimal is a different querstion. Foods likely bring in more trace elements than a water change:

Reef Chemistry Question of the Day #298: Where are those trace elements coming from?

Reef Chemistry Question of the Day 298 We all know that organisms from bacteria to whales require many different trace elements for the biochemical processes of life. One of the things we don't always have a good handle on in a reef tank is where they are coming from and where they are going...

www.reef2reef.com

from it:

Which adds more iron to a 100 L reef tank that is completely depleted in iron:

1. A 100% water change with natural seawater, which we will assume for this purpose has a concentration of 0.5 nM or 28 ng/L = 0.028 ug/L
2. 1 medium shrimp (size 41-60/pound)
3. Nori sheet 7" x 8"
4. 1 whole sardine (2-2/3" x 1/2" x 1/4")


The values quoted vary a lot, but the best I can come up with is:

4>3>2>>1

sardine has most
nori is second
shrimp is third
and even a 100% water change is way, way below all of these.

 

[Denimchicken]

Iodine is important but shouldn’t cause die. Phosphates can promote algae and cynobacteria which can lead to die off. I will tell you I lost close to 150-200 zoa polyps and thought I thought it was my parameters but they always came back pretty good. I finally sat and watch my tank after I place new frags in and they kept being flipped. Turns out my hippo tang was eating my zonas despite regular feeding and nori. I rehomed her just this weekend. I would sit back and watch your fish regardless if they are “reef safe” or not. I would also take a look the tank when the lights are off and see if you have any pests.

 

[Pudgeshambley]

Did you use live rock? If so could it have been a hitch hiker that made them disappear. I had three damsels when I first started in the hobby that were being killed by a worm that was growing in the rock that I never saw till my last one was gone and I could not find it. I broke open the rock and saw a worm that was about 14 inches long eating the fish.

I did not use live rock. I have added some coral frags without dipping so I did end up with bristleworms. Not sure if there were any other hitchhikers. The tank is almost two years old and have never seen anything like a large worm. I have never had anything else like snails, hermit crabs, etc. disappear either. Well except the tailspot blenny but I think that was the clownfish because they bullied my yellow watchman Goby to the point I had to put him in an isolation box and then move the clownfish to a new tank.

 

[Pudgeshambley]

It's possible, certainly, but whether that is optimal is a different querstion. Foods likely bring in more trace elements than a water change:

Reef Chemistry Question of the Day #298: Where are those trace elements coming from?

Reef Chemistry Question of the Day 298 We all know that organisms from bacteria to whales require many different trace elements for the biochemical processes of life. One of the things we don't always have a good handle on in a reef tank is where they are coming from and where they are going...

www.reef2reef.com

from it:

Which adds more iron to a 100 L reef tank that is completely depleted in iron:

1. A 100% water change with natural seawater, which we will assume for this purpose has a concentration of 0.5 nM or 28 ng/L = 0.028 ug/L
2. 1 medium shrimp (size 41-60/pound)
3. Nori sheet 7" x 8"
4. 1 whole sardine (2-2/3" x 1/2" x 1/4")


The values quoted vary a lot, but the best I can come up with is:

4>3>2>>1

sardine has most
nori is second
shrimp is third
and even a 100% water change is way, way below all of these.

I have been feeding LRS Reef Frenzy and Herbivore frenzy. I know it has several different types of seafood and nori. So would this food be sufficient in replacing the trace elements based off of what you found?

 

[jda]

Shrimp can die quickly if they are not slowly acclimated to different salinity levels. If your LFS was at 35 and you were at 32, then this could have stressed them. Did you slowly drip acclimate the shrimp?

You could also have something eating them.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have been feeding LRS Reef Frenzy and Herbivore frenzy. I know it has several different types of seafood and nori. So would this food be sufficient in replacing the trace elements based off of what you found?

No low level of a trace element will cause a shrimp to die in 24 h. So while you may or may not benefit from dosing, it is not the immediate cause of the shrimp issue.

I cannot answer if dosing will be helpful, but it is worth experimenting with it if you have any corals.

 

[Pudgeshambley]

Shrimp can die quickly if they are not slowly acclimated to different salinity levels. If your LFS was at 35 and you were at 32, then this could have stressed them. Did you slowly drip acclimate the shrimp?

You could also have something eating them.

I did not drip acclimate. I followed the companies recommendation both times. I am pretty sure reef cleaners even said specifically not to drip acclimate. I am worried that improper acclimation may have been the cause though. But I have no way of knowing. How long do peppermint shrimp live after being added if not acclimated properly?

 

[jda]

Get your salinity to ocean levels of 35 ppt. Then drip acclimating is not as big of a deal.