Need help with Birdsnests

[Nicolas Sabrun]

Hey everyone,

I am having issue with my birdsnest. They were doing fine until lately. They started to lose color / bleach. The polyps are still there but I can see the white skeleton underneath.

The birdnests are about mid-height in the tank and at different locations.

What could be causing this?
Thank you for your help

Tank Parameters:

20 G H with 4 12" current usa pro led strip ( on for 9 hours ) + 1 175W MH Hamilton 14k ( on for 5 hours)

Alk: 8.5 dkh
Calcium: 420 ppm
Ph: 8
SG: 1.025
Nitrate: 2 ppm
Phosphate: 0 ppm

Here are some (bad) pictures:

 

[Neil Fox]

Nitrates and P4 are pretty low. Maybe drop your Alk a little.

 

[james983]

How long is your tank set up? I see some coraline algae on the power head and the pvc but very little on rocks and glass. A healthy tank has coraline growing out of control and is a excellent indicator of coral sustainability.

Your levels look ok, but none of the corals look particularly happy. I see all you Zoas are closed and they are more forgiving than SPS.

Can you tell us more about your setup? Are you running a protein skimmer, turnover rate, method of PO4 control, etc. With more information we may be able to help.

 

[Nicolas Sabrun]

Nitrates and P4 are pretty low. Maybe drop your Alk a little.

How low can I safely go? I actually skipped today water change in order to bring the nitrate up a bit . last week , it was reading 0.25 ppm for nitrate and I was at 2 ppm yesterday

 

[AdamNC]

How low can I safely go? I actually skipped today water change in order to bring the nitrate up a bit . last week , it was reading 0.25 ppm for nitrate and I was at 2 ppm yesterday

Alk is fine(8-12dKH), No3 is fine(1-3ppm) but try to get your Po4 down to about 0.02ppm(0.02-0.04ppm).

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

A healthy tank has coraline growing out of control

I think the lighting is very high. notice that is growing in the shade. IMO normal above 500+par. hes likely at 700 to 100o at the top of the tank.

the corals are using up the food very fast, check it out.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/h...d-i-dont-know-what-to-do.210035/#post-2401666
set the NO and Po as randy suggests.

Your on RODI? No GFO?
I would feed that tank like theres no tomorrow. esp if you want those NPS to last.

 

[Nicolas Sabrun]

How long is your tank set up? I see some coraline algae on the power head and the pvc but very little on rocks and glass. A healthy tank has coraline growing out of control and is a excellent indicator of coral sustainability.

Your levels look ok, but none of the corals look particularly happy. I see all you Zoas are closed and they are more forgiving than SPS.

Can you tell us more about your setup? Are you running a protein skimmer, turnover rate, method of PO4 control, etc. With more information we may be able to help.

I used to have more coraline but I think my urchin is eating it .

Regarding, the zoas looks better than on the pic . It was a late picture.

Here are some more shot during mid day:

Again sorry for the bad quality pics.

Info about the tank: 9 month old

Rio nano skimmer ( not great but it does some work)
Aquaclear 50 with media basket : poly fiber and Phosguard
Fluval 206 canister with carbon and biomedia
koralia 1 and koralia nano for powerhead ( I will switch the koralia 1 to a jebao pp4 in order to have more flow control)

The coralline does grow on the side and on the pillars supporting the plate rock.

I am dosing Red sea Nopox daily to control po4 and nitrate. 1 to 2 ml per day.

In terms of feeding:
red sea energy A/B twice a week ( 4ml total)
marine snow twice week 5ml alternate to the reef energy

I tried reef-roids but it got my PO4 out of control.

 

[Nicolas Sabrun]

I think the lighting is very high. notice that is growing in the shade. IMO normal above 500+par. hes likely at 700 to 100o at the top of the tank.

the corals are using up the food very fast, check it out.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/h...d-i-dont-know-what-to-do.210035/#post-2401666
set the NO and Po as randy suggests.

Your on RODI? No GFO?
I would feed that tank like theres no tomorrow. esp if you want those NPS to last.

Regarding the lighting, I think it maybe the issue since the bleaching appears to be on the top of the birdsnest at the most exposed places.

I am thinking about turning the MH off completely. Would this help? The current usa pro strip maybe enough. I don t have access to a Par meter but I do believe I am on the high side.

I am using RODI for top off and WC. ( no tank should be without it honestly)

For GFO, I am using phosguard and dose NoPox daily

For the NPS, I may tried Reef Roids again but target feeding this time.

Also, I was doing 20% weekly to keep nitrate and DOC down.

I skipped one in order to bring my nitrates up. They were 0.25 last week and are now at 2 ppm

 

[twilliard]

lighting :)
Looks like you may be pushing the photosynthesis too hard

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

: poly fiber and Phosguard

ditch that.

I am dosing Red sea Nopox daily to control po4 and nitrate. 1 to 2 ml per day.

pulling NO and Po with carbon dosing AND phosguard AND Poly pad. thats GFO

Its a young tank. the params are going to move and settle.
IMO with that much light the coral will take care of the NO and po pretty effectively.

your probably running more than twice the PAR most people do. esp folks w led. its old school reefing bro. get the nutrints under control and UP and you'll have red planets in there next month.

id lean back on the chem nutrient control slowly and see where the numbers go. contrary to popular opinion and I can and have asked Randy Farley, higher PO is not a bad thing if there's little to no algae already present in the system. in fact i can show you articles that show it actually is ok as it more available to the coral.
In fact with that high bioload of coral the coral is actually acting as a Refugium so to speak and there's likely no excess nutrints to really worry about.

dont sweat the high par. Its actually a good thing. your tank looks like my friends SPS tank. lots aof coral no corraline no algae, as the alge has been out competed by the coral.
dont sweat the dissolves organics, you actually need those too. Its plankton basicly. its what coral eat. Both dissolved No and Po AND plankton. thats what polyps are for catchin food;)

check out that thread by russ. itll explain a lot.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

lighting :)

old school.
balance the nutrints to the lighting.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

@ksc your looking at this. what do you think.

 

[Triggreef]

I agree with salty too params seem good. My po4 was .18 last check (hanna) and that's down quite a bit from normal for my tank.

I just put up a shot with my po4 claim so people know i don't have a tank full of happy colt coral. ;)

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I agree with salty too params seem good. My po4 was .18 last check (hanna) and that's down quite a bit from normal for my tank.

I just pay a shot with my po4 claim so people know i don't have a tank of happy colt coral. ;)

that's actually what missing in the OP's tank. More fish POOP!

 

[Flippers4pups]

I'll chime in as a new to led user, looks like the OP's lighting is way over par. Maybe if possible raise your MH up 6 inches and reduce your photo period on your LED's to 8 hrs and MH's to 4. Also as others have stated, your stripping your water and its too clean.

If your three, alkalinity,magnesium and calcium are good, light will make your coral want to grow. But if there isn't enough nutrients to feed them, the zooxanthellae can't keep up as the skeleton underneath grows essentially starving them. They then shut down and will "starve " to death.

That's why most of us have fish and corals together. Feeding fish, feeds the coral.

 

[Nicolas Sabrun]

that's actually what missing in the OP's tank. More fish POOP!

I do have some fish poop. lol 4 fish in a 20 g would create some poop.

I am not against letting No raise up a bit. However, I would like to keep PO4 low. I do have some GHA in there just waiting to take over if the nutrients level goes up.

So all I need is to balance the light to the nutrients. or Could I just lower the Par ( MH off ) and keep the nutrient as is. I always thought that my 4 12" current usa pro led strip were more of supplement and were not strong enough to keep SPS.

 

[Nicolas Sabrun]

check out that thread by russ. itll explain a lot.

Do you have a link to it? Please. I tried to search for it but it came up with way too many threads.

 

[Nicolas Sabrun]

I'll chime in as a new to led user, looks like the OP's lighting is way over par. Maybe if possible raise your MH up 6 inches and reduce your photo period on your LED's to 8 hrs and MH's to 4. Also as others have stated, your stripping your water and its too clean.

If your three, alkalinity,magnesium and calcium are good, light will make your coral want to grow. But if there isn't enough nutrients to feed them, the zooxanthellae can't keep up as the skeleton underneath grows essentially starving them. They then shut down and will "starve " to death.

That's why most of us have fish and corals together. Feeding fish, feeds the coral.

My MH are already sitting at 8" above water. the 4 12" current usa pro strip are at 9". Lights are in a canopy so I can t go any higher. Maybe my MH is too much for my 20 g. It is only 20" deep. I should prob only keep the leds for now.

 

[Nicolas Sabrun]

I agree with salty too params seem good. My po4 was .18 last check (hanna) and that's down quite a bit from normal for my tank.

I just pay a shot with my po4 claim so people know i don't have a tank of happy colt coral. ;)

Beautiful tank. That s definitely not colt or kenya.:)

 

[Triggreef]

My MH are already sitting at 8" above water. the 4 12" current usa pro strip are at 9". Lights are in a canopy so I can t go any higher. Maybe my MH is too much for my 20 g. It is only 20" deep. I should prob only keep the leds for now.

I missed that on the type of leds, those are like basically nothing for the coral just for your eyes. They actually run about .25w per led and will not sustain your coral by itself.

As for the mh, I'm unfamiliar with mh at all, never used them. I would think it might be a little much for a 20g tank though even though it's only a 175w but again, no mh experience.

I like a fair amount of nutrients in my tanks, but i run fuges for the algae to grow which keeps it out of my displays. What works in ones tank doesn't necessarily work somewhere else.

I'd like to ask if there have been any alk or ca drops, regardless of time frame or speed?

And if the sg had dropped perhaps for a while without you knowing?

And lastly how long have you been using these particular lights? Changed that bulb recently?

And while I'm thinking about it, when your po4 was "out of control" what did it get up too, and how long ago did you bring it down?