Need some solutions on raising my pH

[JCOLE]

Hello everyone!

I would like to get some ideas that I can try and raise my pH higher than it is currently. Let me start off by saying that I know where I want my levels to be and there is a reason I want to do this. I have a full Acropora dominant system and over the last year, my corals have been in a dormant state. They had great color and were growing, just VERY slowly. I had a couple that were frags for almost 2 years. I made a very dumb mistake and assumed my pH was ok. I really never concerned myself with my pH. Well, two months ago I decided it was time to calibrate my probe as my pH was in the 8.40-8.60 range daily. After calibration, my probes were in the 7.7's and wouldn't get over 7.80! I decided to make some changes and did the usual to bump up my pH and ever since my corals are finally back to growing how they should be. I am seeing growth daily and the two year old frags are now growing and shooting up branches.

Right now my pH is around 7.85 at its lowest and around 8.15 at its highest. I would like to get it around 8 at its lowest and 8.30-8.40 at its highest.

These are the changes I made that have given me a boost so far.

1. I changed my alk over to Soda Ash
2. I started using Kalkwasser again. I mix up 30 gallons of it and use it for my ATO water. I do mix vinegar with the kalk solution and I am wondering if this is lowering the kalk pH?
3. I ran my skimmer line outside to get fresh air
4. I also installed a large commercial air pump that draws air from outside through a CO2 scrubber and then goes to 4 large 4" airstones in my sump. The airstones are creating a storm or aeration and bubbles.

I also run my fuge light at night on a reversed lighting schedule.

With all of these additions/changes, I still cannot get my pH up to where I want it.

I was thinking of adding this on a doser. What do you all think? It is supposed to raise the pH without the alkalinity but I don't understand how that can happen. I thought there wasn't a way to raise pH without affecting alkalinity?

Brightwell Aquatics - Boost pH+

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Adding a fan over tank or sump will help

Adding sodium bicarbonate GRADUALLYto sump will help

adding a co2 scrubber will

 

[arking_mark]

Step 1, identify the pH issue...with a cup aeration test to understand what needs to be addressed.

How I use a cup aeration test to help pinpoint certain pH issues.

• I do 2 tests. One outside and one next to the tank.
• I run an airstone for about 1 hour and measure pH.
• If the outdoor test isn't around 8.2 NBS, then I know I have a meter or Alk issue...and it's never an Alk issue.
• If the next to tank test is below 8.2 NBS, then I have higher indoor CO2...almost always the case.
• If the next to tank test is higher than the tank, I have an aeration issue or something else that is driving down pH...it's almost never something else unless I'm dosing something that lowers pH.
• If the next to tank test is lower than the tank but not at desired levels, then I need to look at my pH management setup.

In my case, I use Kalk dosing, refugium, and a CO2 Scrubber/Skimmer for pH control.

Lessons learned in trying to maintain pH stability

For those interested in maintaining pH stability around +/- 0.05 I have a couple of lessons learned. These are things that I found out on my journey to pH stability. Prior to seeking pH stability my tank pH was consistently around ~7.9. However, much of this journey went on before the tank was...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[ddc0715]

man, I went down this road, performed the inside and outside aeration tests on tank water, that told me there was an improvement in using outside air.

no help below means very little to almost no improvement

used a co2 scrubber connected to my skimmer recirculating no help
added air stones to the sump no help orp jump a lot with that one that was a plus
added outside air to my skimmer and air stones no help
add ceiling fans no help
added sump fans no help.
dt fan above water. no help
improved surface agitation in the dt and sump no help.
test co2 levels in the fish room came back normal
opened all doors and windows when I could and used a hall fan to blow air into the fish room. no hlep.

research CO2 it is the problem as most know. so I implemented kalkwasser to my tank if I can not get rid of the excess co2 then I was going to use it. reducing co2 in your home is a 4 figure hvac home improvement project. i priced that two

what is still in place on my tank is outside air to the skimmer, surface agitation in the dt and sump, ceiling fan and dt fan, and kalkwasser. my ph has gone from a high of 7.9 to a high of 8.2 now it still rises and falls but its a lot better.. good luck..hopefully a simple fix will do you right.

I think the better question is why do some have great success with simple fixes like a sinlge fan and others like myself do not.

 

[arking_mark]

To answer some questions...

1. I changed my alk over to Soda Ash
2. I started using Kalkwasser again. I mix up 30 gallons of it and use it for my ATO water. I do mix vinegar with the kalk solution and I am wondering if this is lowering the kalk pH?
3. I ran my skimmer line outside to get fresh air
4. I also installed a large commercial air pump that draws air from outside through a CO2 scrubber and then goes to 4 large 4" airstones in my sump. The airstones are creating a storm or aeration and bubbles.

1--> will increase pH
2--> Vinegar increase saturation of Kalk but still boost pH
3 & 4 --> will increase pH assuming it can overcome indoor CO2 and powerhead/return pump aeration.

 

[arking_mark]

man, I went down this road, performed the inside and outside aeration tests on tank water, that told me there was an improvement in using outside air.

no help below means very little to almost no improvement

used a co2 scrubber connected to my skimmer recirculating no help
added air stones to the sump no help orp jump a lot with that one that was a plus
added outside air to my skimmer and air stones no help
add ceiling fans no help
added sump fans no help.
dt fan above water. no help
improved surface agitation in the dt and sump no help.
test co2 levels in the fish room came back normal
opened all doors and windows when I could and used a hall fan to blow air into the fish room. no hlep.

research CO2 it is the problem as most know. so I implemented kalkwasser to my tank if I can not get rid of the excess co2 then I was going to use it. reducing co2 in your home is a 4 figure hvac home improvement project. i priced that two

what is still in place on my tank is outside air to the skimmer, surface agitation in the dt and sump, ceiling fan and dt fan, and kalkwasser. my ph has gone from a high of 7.9 to a high of 8.2 now it still rises and falls but its a lot better.. good luck..hopefully a simple fix will do you right.

I think the better question is why do some have great success with simple fixes like a sinlge fan and others like myself do not.

Simple answer is CO2 sources vs sinks in the system and aeration. Examples:

• A skimmer with outside air may not be able to outcompete the powerhead/return pump aeration with indoor air.
• A tank with outdoor air (open windows) without enough water movement will accumulate CO2.
• A highly overstocked tank can drive down pH with proper aeration

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I was thinking of adding this on a doser. What do you all think? It is supposed to raise the pH without the alkalinity but I don't understand how that can happen. I thought there wasn't a way to raise pH without affecting alkalinity?

Brightwell Aquatics - Boost pH+

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Do not take chemistry advice from Brightwell.

They have taken a high pH alk additive (hydroxide), and misled people into thinking it raises pH and not alkalinity, while the exact same ingredient (hydroxide) is sold by them in other products (kalkwasser) as an alkalinity additive.

Makes my blood boil.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Adding sodium bicarbonate GRADUALLYto sump will help

I assume that is a typo and you mean carbonate?

 

[arking_mark]

Brightwell Aquatics - Boost pH+ is sodium and potassium hydroxides in a proprietary base. @Randy Holmes-Farley may be able to explain how this would not affect Alkalinity. As far as I know, any hydroxide will increase Alkalinity. Maybe the propriety base combines with the produced carbonates to something insoluble...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Brightwell Aquatics - Boost pH+ is sodium and potassium hydroxides in a proprietary base. @Randy Holmes-Farley may be able to explain how this would not affect Alkalinity.

lol

I'd win a Nobel prize if I had an explanation for that claim. lol

 

[Sarlindescent]

First, I would recalibrate the probe again. Its $1-2 in reagents and a probe that far off, just seems unlikely if calibrated initially. Assuming the probe is correct, there are 3 major factors in low PH. First is an imbalance of parameters/low alk. This is pretty easy to test and correct. Second, production of CO2 in the tank. This can be caused by a high fish load, or less thought about, a buildup in waste. The bacteria in the tank that break down uneaten food, detritus, ... produce CO2 when breaking down waste. After a couple years of no mechanical filtration, I was able to bring up PH almost 0.2 by removing hidden pockets of detritus, blowing out rocks, and someone. Third, and usually the largest impact, is you home CO2. I was in a house that regularly was above 1200 and as high as 2500ppm. I was lethargic, getting headaches, and just generally not ideal. I bought a CO2 monitor and would vent the house when possible to reduce the levels down to 800-1200ppm. Still not ideal, but this can have a huge impact. At some point, it doesn't matter how much air you pump in if your house is very high CO2.

 

[GARRIGA]

Best way I've found to raise PH permanently is either increased surface agitation and/or Kalk.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Best way I've found to raise PH permanently is either increased surface agitation and/or Kalk.

Surface agitation only works if the low pH is not caused by high indoor CO2 levels. When that is the case, it can make it worse.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I discuss many issues relating to aquarium pH here, including how to diagnose the source of the excess CO2 driving down pH. That said, a pH above 7.8 does not require immediate attention. :

pH and the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION

by Randy Holmes-Farley For many aquarists, pH is not something that they have much experience with aside from their aquarium. For many, pH is almost a black box measurement: something to be considered, but whose physical meaning makes little sense to them. This article will Read more here...

www.reefedition.com

 

[2una]

Skimmer not undersize?
I've seen good results toying around with a skimmer pump by itself hooked up to a co2 scrubber & set up to run night hours. That's kind of a step up of what your already doing with the airstones.
I'm over in the sodium hydroxide camp myself but that's not for everyone.

 

[GARRIGA]

Surface agitation only works if the low pH is not caused by high indoor CO2 levels. When that is the case, it can make it worse.

That wasn't my recent experience. My house must have very high CO2 levels due to number of inhabitants. House is well sealed with impact windows which contributes to lower electric bills since we run AC year round. Raised my flow in my test tank and PH rose from 7.5 to 7.9 over a few days and staying around that.

My situation is unique in that the flow comes from a filter that acts as the pump for a large volume of pumice to allow denitrification. Water coming out of that media should be low in DO and high in CO2 assuming it's working and I believe it is because side affect of raising the flow was inefficiency in processing nitrates and phosphates which are now higher than usual. Could be that combination is adding to the problem or solution but I've also experienced increased surface agitation improving PH going back to the 80s.

I have am HM Digital PH-200 probe and I've seen the PH rise as it gets closer to the highest section of surface disturbance. I'm only stating what I'm experiencing. Hard for me to discount that.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I assume that is a typo and you mean carbonate?

Carbonate yes
I would like a phone that does not correct my wording or tells me how to spell lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That wasn't my recent experience. My house must have very high CO2 levels due to number of inhabitants. House is well sealed with impact windows which contributes to lower electric bills since we run AC year round. Raised my flow in my test tank and PH rose from 7.5 to 7.9 over a few days and staying around that.

My situation is unique in that the flow comes from a filter that acts as the pump for a large volume of pumice to allow denitrification. Water coming out of that media should be low in DO and high in CO2 assuming it's working and I believe it is because side affect of raising the flow was inefficiency in processing nitrates and phosphates which are now higher than usual. Could be that combination is adding to the problem or solution but I've also experienced increased surface agitation improving PH going back to the 80s.

I have am HM Digital PH-200 probe and I've seen the PH rise as it gets closer to the highest section of surface disturbance. I'm only stating what I'm experiencing. Hard for me to discount that.

I don't think your experience can dispute the notion of what agitation can accomplish. The only issue at hand, if the pH measurement was accurate, is what was causing the excess CO2 in the water.

Surface agitation can only help drive the CO2 in the water toward equilibrium with the air that is above it.

If your measurements are correct, even if only the trend was correct, then your tank must have had excess CO2 in it relative to the air when you raised your flow.

That is often not the case.

 

[GARRIGA]

I don't think your experience can dispute the notion of what agitation can accomplish. The only issue at hand, if the pH measurement was accurate, is what was causing the excess CO2 in the water.

Surface agitation can only help drive the CO2 in the water toward equilibrium with the air that is above it.

If your measurements are correct, even if only the trend was correct, then your tank must have had excess CO2 in it relative to the air when you raised your flow.

That is often not the case.

Could it be that the denitrification was creating excess CO2 which when flow was increased helped push it out and my system then would naturally run at 7.9? At the moment I have no way to test CO2 levels in my house and just basing expectation on number of occupants along with how air tight my home is.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Could it be that the denitrification was creating excess CO2 which when flow was increased helped push it out and my system then would naturally run at 7.9? At the moment I have no way to test CO2 levels in my house and just basing expectation on number of occupants along with how air tight my home is.

Normal respiration from metabolism of organics in foods (e.g., by fish) will produce a lot more CO2 than denitrification, but some certainly can come from both processes.