Need some solutions on raising my pH

[BCSreef]

When we replaced our windows, my pH really plummeted. I tried everything I could think of or read about below.

I did the outside aeration test and that raised the pH in the glass of tank water. Like you, I now pump outside air to my skimmer, but no scrubber. raised my pH a good bit.

Crack a few windows when I can - another bump in pH.

I started dosing lots of kalkwasser, again, another good bump in pH

Put the refugium and small frag tank on opposite photoperiods - another bump in pH.

Added a larger frag tank on opposite photoperiods - another bump in pH.

I also calibrate my probes quarterly or more and replace them once a year. I use BRS double junction. Calibrating usually make pH drop suggesting my probes drift upwards over time.

The largest pH boost comes when I can open all the windows for a few days (suggesting high indoor CO2) and also when I added the large frag tank and filled it with corals.

I don't think any one solution will fix your issue, but a number of small fixes will. Most of the above fixes bumped pH by only 0.1 or usually less, but the effect is additive and my previous pH range of 7.7-7.9 is now usually 8.1-8.3.

 

[ddc0715]

well all I know is that co2 comes from only three places per randys articles

1. the surrounding air around your tank.
2. corals producing it and like randys article says
3. adding co2 to your tank via a reactor

I never found the source of my co2 so I'm still following this topic because as happy as i am ph increase i but would like to hit that 8.2?-8.3? range

also, my tank says that high alk does not equal high ph. as you can see i am in the mid of a drop in alk for some reason orange. but the ph still stays high (blue) and the ca (green) remains level headed. i hope you find the source and if you do please share.

i thought about installing a vent fan above my tank to blow air from the roof top onto the top of my water. you know kinda like a bathroom air vent but in reverse. placing a fan where the damper is in this photo.

 

[J1a]

One thing I observed is that incorrectly sized CO2 scrubber can reduce the air draw of the protein skimmer. This then results in reduced overall effect of CO2 removal.

It's easy to just unhook the scrubber from the skimmer and check if there is a change in the amount/quality of bubble produced.

 

[2una]

Lighting is also another angle - run them a bit longer or stronger will also offer a bump

 

[Pistondog]

Hello everyone!

I would like to get some ideas that I can try and raise my pH higher than it is currently. Let me start off by saying that I know where I want my levels to be and there is a reason I want to do this. I have a full Acropora dominant system and over the last year, my corals have been in a dormant state. They had great color and were growing, just VERY slowly. I had a couple that were frags for almost 2 years. I made a very dumb mistake and assumed my pH was ok. I really never concerned myself with my pH. Well, two months ago I decided it was time to calibrate my probe as my pH was in the 8.40-8.60 range daily. After calibration, my probes were in the 7.7's and wouldn't get over 7.80! I decided to make some changes and did the usual to bump up my pH and ever since my corals are finally back to growing how they should be. I am seeing growth daily and the two year old frags are now growing and shooting up branches.

Right now my pH is around 7.85 at its lowest and around 8.15 at its highest. I would like to get it around 8 at its lowest and 8.30-8.40 at its highest.

These are the changes I made that have given me a boost so far.

1. I changed my alk over to Soda Ash
2. I started using Kalkwasser again. I mix up 30 gallons of it and use it for my ATO water. I do mix vinegar with the kalk solution and I am wondering if this is lowering the kalk pH?
3. I ran my skimmer line outside to get fresh air
4. I also installed a large commercial air pump that draws air from outside through a CO2 scrubber and then goes to 4 large 4" airstones in my sump. The airstones are creating a storm or aeration and bubbles.

I also run my fuge light at night on a reversed lighting schedule.

With all of these additions/changes, I still cannot get my pH up to where I want it.

I was thinking of adding this on a doser. What do you all think? It is supposed to raise the pH without the alkalinity but I don't understand how that can happen. I thought there wasn't a way to raise pH without affecting alkalinity?

Brightwell Aquatics - Boost pH+

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Get a co2 air monitor to determine the ambient levels.
I have this one for many params. They can be had for around $100.
uHoo Smart Air Quality Sensor – 9 in 1 Indoor Air Monitor with Temperature and Humidity Gauge, CO2, Dust (PM2.5), VOC, NO2, Allergen Meter -to Breathe Easy and Boost Health with App

 

[Jonify]

My first thought is, after doing all that, the probe must be wrong I would calibrate again, with fresh test standards. If you're still dealing with low pH, among all of the other things suggested, two things I did had a drastic impact on my tank: cracking a window 24X7 and running a CO2 scrubber. Brought my ph from 7.8-8.0 to 8.2-8.4. I am not running kalk.

 

[GARRIGA]

Normal respiration from metabolism of organics in foods (e.g., by fish) will produce a lot more CO2 than denitrification, but some certainly can come from both processes.

Reduced flow yesterday to test reduction in nutrients as it appears that impaired my denitrification. Checked PH and still at 7.9. Seems you are correct and flow causing surface agitation not the issue I was having. Then the question is why was it 7.5 since shortly after cycling. Don't have GHA but do have algae film on the rocks which I'm fine with as the CUC need to eat and it's an experimental tank plus I'm using a Kessil Sun from my freshwater experiment set to full spectrum which tends to grow more algae. Could the algae be raising my PH? I'll test PH tonight to see if there's a correlation.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Photosynthesizing algae (or anything) will raise the daytime pH.

Cycling depletes alk and lowers pH.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Hello everyone!

I would like to get some ideas that I can try and raise my pH higher than it is currently. Let me start off by saying that I know where I want my levels to be and there is a reason I want to do this. I have a full Acropora dominant system and over the last year, my corals have been in a dormant state. They had great color and were growing, just VERY slowly. I had a couple that were frags for almost 2 years. I made a very dumb mistake and assumed my pH was ok. I really never concerned myself with my pH. Well, two months ago I decided it was time to calibrate my probe as my pH was in the 8.40-8.60 range daily. After calibration, my probes were in the 7.7's and wouldn't get over 7.80! I decided to make some changes and did the usual to bump up my pH and ever since my corals are finally back to growing how they should be. I am seeing growth daily and the two year old frags are now growing and shooting up branches.

Right now my pH is around 7.85 at its lowest and around 8.15 at its highest. I would like to get it around 8 at its lowest and 8.30-8.40 at its highest.

These are the changes I made that have given me a boost so far.

1. I changed my alk over to Soda Ash
2. I started using Kalkwasser again. I mix up 30 gallons of it and use it for my ATO water. I do mix vinegar with the kalk solution and I am wondering if this is lowering the kalk pH?
3. I ran my skimmer line outside to get fresh air
4. I also installed a large commercial air pump that draws air from outside through a CO2 scrubber and then goes to 4 large 4" airstones in my sump. The airstones are creating a storm or aeration and bubbles.

I also run my fuge light at night on a reversed lighting schedule.

With all of these additions/changes, I still cannot get my pH up to where I want it.

I was thinking of adding this on a doser. What do you all think? It is supposed to raise the pH without the alkalinity but I don't understand how that can happen. I thought there wasn't a way to raise pH without affecting alkalinity?

Brightwell Aquatics - Boost pH+

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Depending on how much of an investment you have in this and how much you really care about ph and your coral growth you can do what I did and have an erv installed in your home. WOW WHAT A DIFFERENCE. Solid 8.3-8.4 all day and night and was able to stopped using co2 scrubber.

 

[GARRIGA]

Photosynthesizing algae (or anything) will raise the daytime pH.

Cycling depletes alk and lowers pH.

My alkalinity has never been an issue since cycling. If anything it's too high. Denitrification raises, although, not at the rate depleted from nitrification but I'm also incorporating Reborn in my top layer which is performing some if not most of my nitrification and goal was to have it melt from the acidity created to act as a poor man's calcium reactor. Hope was also to help stabilize PH from bottoming out.

Seriously think the amount of algae I have is the cause of raising PH 0.4 because it seems rather sparse to me. Will test tonight and see if lights out PH drops which would be expected if photosynthesis occurring in enough volume to affect my PH.

At some point I need to write this tank up in the experimental section or new build. No sump, no skimmer, no nutrient export. No water changes. Next is adding coralline now that PH has stabilized above 7.8. Corals once that's established. At some point I'll start adding additives as needed. Eager to see how alkalinity consumption balances with the denitrification and Reborn as biological media.

 

[JCOLE]

First, I would recalibrate the probe again. Its $1-2 in reagents and a probe that far off, just seems unlikely if calibrated initially. Assuming the probe is correct, there are 3 major factors in low PH. First is an imbalance of parameters/low alk. This is pretty easy to test and correct. Second, production of CO2 in the tank. This can be caused by a high fish load, or less thought about, a buildup in waste. The bacteria in the tank that break down uneaten food, detritus, ... produce CO2 when breaking down waste. After a couple years of no mechanical filtration, I was able to bring up PH almost 0.2 by removing hidden pockets of detritus, blowing out rocks, and someone. Third, and usually the largest impact, is you home CO2. I was in a house that regularly was above 1200 and as high as 2500ppm. I was lethargic, getting headaches, and just generally not ideal. I bought a CO2 monitor and would vent the house when possible to reduce the levels down to 800-1200ppm. Still not ideal, but this can have a huge impact. At some point, it doesn't matter how much air you pump in if your house is very high CO2.

I currently have 3 recently calibrated pH probes on my system right now. One on my main Apex system, a Pinpoint pH monitor running 24/7, and I added a probe to my backup Apex on the same system just to rule out any probe issues. I also have the Hanna handheld pH probe. The three probes plus the handheld are all in the same range or within .05 of each other.

I put my Co2 monitor in my garage where my fish system is and it was around the 460 range.

Next to my display tank it was around 700.

 

[JCOLE]

I discuss many issues relating to aquarium pH here, including how to diagnose the source of the excess CO2 driving down pH. That said, a pH above 7.8 does not require immediate attention. :

pH and the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION

by Randy Holmes-Farley For many aquarists, pH is not something that they have much experience with aside from their aquarium. For many, pH is almost a black box measurement: something to be considered, but whose physical meaning makes little sense to them. This article will Read more here...

www.reefedition.com

Thank you. I agree. I am not too concerned about chasing pH and I am not making any unnecessary changes to the system to try and correct the issue quickly. I just want to implement or change things to try and get it up higher for overall health and growth.

 

[JCOLE]

Skimmer not undersize?
I've seen good results toying around with a skimmer pump by itself hooked up to a co2 scrubber & set up to run night hours. That's kind of a step up of what your already doing with the airstones.
I'm over in the sodium hydroxide camp myself but that's not for everyone.

I have the Reef Octopus 250int on the system which is a decent size for the system.

 

[JCOLE]

When we replaced our windows, my pH really plummeted. I tried everything I could think of or read about below.

I did the outside aeration test and that raised the pH in the glass of tank water. Like you, I now pump outside air to my skimmer, but no scrubber. raised my pH a good bit.

Crack a few windows when I can - another bump in pH.

I started dosing lots of kalkwasser, again, another good bump in pH

Put the refugium and small frag tank on opposite photoperiods - another bump in pH.

Added a larger frag tank on opposite photoperiods - another bump in pH.

I also calibrate my probes quarterly or more and replace them once a year. I use BRS double junction. Calibrating usually make pH drop suggesting my probes drift upwards over time.

The largest pH boost comes when I can open all the windows for a few days (suggesting high indoor CO2) and also when I added the large frag tank and filled it with corals.

I don't think any one solution will fix your issue, but a number of small fixes will. Most of the above fixes bumped pH by only 0.1 or usually less, but the effect is additive and my previous pH range of 7.7-7.9 is now usually 8.1-8.3.

I currently have my fuge on opposite photoperiods but not my frag tank. I am going to try that for a week and see how that goes. I have my frag tank set to turn on when my fuge lights turn on.

 

[JCOLE]

One thing I observed is that incorrectly sized CO2 scrubber can reduce the air draw of the protein skimmer. This then results in reduced overall effect of CO2 removal.

It's easy to just unhook the scrubber from the skimmer and check if there is a change in the amount/quality of bubble produced.

I currently have a large commercial air pump sucking air from outside to a 10" CO2 canister with soda lime. The air pump is drawing air through the scrubber and goes to 4 large 2" air stones in my sump. I will get a movie of it in action tonight.

 

[JCOLE]

My first thought is, after doing all that, the probe must be wrong I would calibrate again, with fresh test standards. If you're still dealing with low pH, among all of the other things suggested, two things I did had a drastic impact on my tank: cracking a window 24X7 and running a CO2 scrubber. Brought my ph from 7.8-8.0 to 8.2-8.4. I am not running kalk.

I already thought of that and currently have 3 calibrated probes on separate testers(2 separate Apex controllers and a Pinpoint handheld monitor) running the tank along with a Hanna handheld probe. All are around the same and within .05 of each other. With 4 probes showing around the same then I can only assume the pH readings are fairly accurate.

 

[2una]

I have the Reef Octopus 250int on the system which is a decent size for the system.

DC pump? so got it tuned so the pump is running as high as you reasonably can?
You said outside air for it but perhaps it might do better on a scrubber.
What that skimmer is doing can make a big differance.

 

[JCOLE]

DC pump? so got it tuned so the pump is running as high as you reasonably can?
You said outside air for it but perhaps it might do better on a scrubber.
What that skimmer is doing can make a big differance.

No, it is the Aquatrance 3000s skimmer pump. It does a good job but not as great as others. However, a large air pump pulling outside air through a CO2 scrubber and feeding 4 2" air stones in my sump should create as much if not more fresh air induction than the skimmer currently does, correct? I have the skimmer line running outside along with an air pump.

 

[arking_mark]

Step 1, identify the pH issue...with a cup aeration test to understand what needs to be addressed.

How I use a cup aeration test to help pinpoint certain pH issues.

• I do 2 tests. One outside and one next to the tank.
• I run an airstone for about 1 hour and measure pH.
• If the outdoor test isn't around 8.2 NBS, then I know I have a meter or Alk issue...and it's never an Alk issue.
• If the next to tank test is below 8.2 NBS, then I have higher indoor CO2...almost always the case.
• If the next to tank test is higher than the tank, I have an aeration issue or something else that is driving down pH...it's almost never something else unless I'm dosing something that lowers pH.
• If the next to tank test is lower than the tank but not at desired levels, then I need to look at my pH management setup.

In my case, I use Kalk dosing, refugium, and a CO2 Scrubber/Skimmer for pH control.

Lessons learned in trying to maintain pH stability

For those interested in maintaining pH stability around +/- 0.05 I have a couple of lessons learned. These are things that I found out on my journey to pH stability. Prior to seeking pH stability my tank pH was consistently around ~7.9. However, much of this journey went on before the tank was...

www.reef2reef.com

What were the results of your cup aeration tests?

 

[2una]

No, it is the Aquatrance 3000s skimmer pump. It does a good job but not as great as others. However, a large air pump pulling outside air through a CO2 scrubber and feeding 4 2" air stones in my sump should create as much if not more fresh air induction than the skimmer currently does, correct? I have the skimmer line running outside along with an air pump.

Aquatrance 3000s Max air 880L/H according to https://www.coralvue.com/aquatrance-3000s-skimmer-pump-aq-3000s
vrs
2400L/H with a Varos 6 according to here - https://reefoctopus.com/product/octo-empty/

Could be a step in the right direction putting a differant pump on it & why your pH is still so low with what you've already done.

I'm of the view the old school sps guys liking oversize skimmers & kalk was really because of the pH benefit it gave but they didn't realise it at the time.

Turn your skimmer off sometime & watch what your pH does to appreciate what its doing.

Vrs the airstones setup i don't know but with some decent air pull thru a skimmer i'd be surprised that the airstones would win

Edit:
Or what about this:
On 1 side your scrubbing with the airstones but on the other your putting it back in with non scrubbed skimmer air? Maybe worth a try adding a scrubber into that skimmer line.