Neptune Apex Humidity Sensor/Probe

DBR_Reef

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I’m going to be doing some videos on alternative sensors to use with the ASM module. This is the module that comes with the par meter or PMK, but you can purchase them separately if you contact Neptune directly- they are about $100. In my opinion this is probably the most under used Neptune product. Basically, any sensor can be adapted to be integrated with an apex.

While there are many uses for the ASM module, perhaps the most relevant is the humidity sensor. Maybe you want to control an exhaust fan in a stand or fish room, or simply want to make sure that your dehumidifier is working. While there are far cheaper humidity control and sensor options, none will have the remote monitoring or easy viewing of being integrated with your apex.

So for this we need:

ASM module- these accept a 0-1v or 0-5v input

24v power supply- any generic 24v dc power supply will work. However, if you have a EB832 with a spare 24v accessory port a 24v cable is a nice, clean option. https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/dc24-to-bare-wire-accessory-cable-neptune-systems.html

Humidity sensor: There are MANY options available here, but to make things as easy as possible I looked for one that had 0-5v out as the signal. There are many sensors that use 0-10v or 4-20 mA signals- these can be used but require some extra electronics/wiring, so why bother. I can’t recommend a particular seller on ebay, as the guy I bought it from lied to me, but if you search “humidity 0-5v” on ebay, it should pop right up and cost about $15. There are many more expensive humidity sensor options, including ones that have displays built in, but these work fine. If you use a different one, as long as it is 0-5v signal the wiring is the same.

Coax cat5 To BNC adapter: these are available all over eBay for less than a buck

Some wire: I’m using doorbell wire.

To wire it up, all we do is take the + and – wires of the power supply and insert them into the + and – terminals on the humidity senor, then take your spare wire and connect the positive into the humidity terminal, and the negative is going to share the power supply negative. Then take your signal wire and insert the the + and – wires into the corresponding terminals of the BNC connector. Keep this wire reasonably short, as the voltage will decrease with length, affecting your readings. The amount varies depending on amps and wire gauge, quality, and length- it is easily calculated, but I don’t see any reason to have longer runs than a few feet, at which point the change is negligible.

Now we need to program the ASM- so plug it in and go to the modules page. Click on the asm module and change it from par to 0-5v signal. Set the minimum to 0 and the max to 100. Plug the bnc connector into the ASM module and you are all done- it is reading humidity in % relative humidity- and you can use it to set alarms or a on off of a fan, or whatever.

Lastly, you want to place the humidity sensor carefully- these sensors are susceptible to corrosion and should be kept well away from salt spray. They should also be placed in a representative location with decent air flow. They certainly don’t need a fan blowing on them, but if you want it to measure humidity in a room, putting it in a corner covered with junk is not going to work.

Thats it!
 

Daniel@R2R

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Very cool! Thanks for sharing!
 

Gotfrogs

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Great post. I am very curious why Apex reports a value > 100 when you set the max to 100. I have the same issue. There must be some way to address this.
 
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Great post. I am very curious why Apex reports a value > 100 when you set the max to 100. I have the same issue. There must be some way to address this.
I think it is just a bug with the Apex. Or possibly they set it up that way for some reason. It is also possible it might not really be set up to read 0-5v like is says, it might be set to read .5 to 4.5 volts. I'm not really sure. I guess I could play around with it and figure it out, but I think fixing it without a apex software update would be difficult.
 

garbled

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Wait, so the ASM module reads straight 0-5VDC? Huh.. thats.. actually fascinating.. There are like half a million 0-5v sensors out there.... How accurate is it? Like down to zero?
 
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Wait, so the ASM module reads straight 0-5VDC? Huh.. thats.. actually fascinating.. There are like half a million 0-5v sensors out there.... How accurate is it? Like down to zero?
I would assume pretty accurate, since it can also take a 0-1v signal
 

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I’m actually looking at purchasing an ASM module so that I can connect an atmospheric CO2 sensor to my apex. I normally live alone, however I have discovered that when more people stay with me it affects the CO2 level in the house and the pH in my tank plummets. I have a CO2 scrubber and a motorized 3 way ball valve already connected to my apex. I don’t want to run the CO2 scrubber all the time, but my plan is that by using the CO2 sensor the apex will see when the CO2 levels in the house are rising and it can then activate the ball valve and enable the CO2 scrubber. Once the CO2 levels in the house drop it will turn the scrubber off again.
 

garbled

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I would assume pretty accurate, since it can also take a 0-1v signal

I wouldn't assume that... for example, my ESP32's builtin ADC is not accurate between 0.0 and 0.1, they both read the same. This is important for TDS, because at 0 TDS the sensor reads at 0v and at like 5 tds it's around 0.1...

For stuff like CO2 tho, where you sit in the middle of the range, it doesn't matter..

Just FYI, the accurate CO2 sensors are expensive, and super fiddly. You have to calibrate them often, and they drift. Do alot of reading on them, because people playing with them on arduino have constant problems with them. I wanted to set one up for a different project, and haven't done so yet because of how fiddly they appear to be.

It's interesting though.. I'm trying to decide what sensor I'd want in there to be directly connected.. I can see uses, I'm just not sure which ones I want to react to...
 

Brett S

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Just FYI, the accurate CO2 sensors are expensive, and super fiddly. You have to calibrate them often, and they drift. Do alot of reading on them, because people playing with them on arduino have constant problems with them. I wanted to set one up for a different project, and haven't done so yet because of how fiddly they appear to be.

Honestly I don’t really need it to be too accurate. Basically all I want to look for is the significant increase in CO2 that I get when multiple people are in the house, as compared to just one person. At that point it will trigger to the apex to enable the CO2 scrubber and it will fine tune the use of the scrubber based on the pH of the water.

But I wanted to enable it based on the atmospheric CO2 levels rather than just reactively enabling it after the pH levels in the water had dropped a lot. Theoretically this should allow the pH to remain more stable even as the CO2 levels in the air are changing.

I guess drifting is something I will need to keep an eye on, but from my initial measurements it seems like there’s as much as a 500 or 600ppm difference between one person in the house and multiple people, so it doesn’t really need to be very accurate or precise for my application.
 

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Right, my understanding is that the MQ-xxx sensors are so wildly off they are basically useless, and the nicer ones, with the lasers and IR and stuff, auto-calibrate every 7.5 days. The problem with that is, they assume that you somehow have them exposed to fresh outdoor air during the calibration process, so if it's indoors, then they recalibrate to a high baseline. Apparently you can buy the K-30 (from co2meter) sensor with auto-calibration turned off, not sure what that would do... Maybe it's good enough for your purposes then?



I'd say get whatever sensor you want, and debug it with an arduino or ESP8266 first, so you know what values to expect out of it, before attempting to hook it into an Apex, which I think will be much harder to debug with.
 

Brett S

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So the sensor I am planning to use is the T8100-D (on the left in the picture)

830606E3-4500-40DF-BD64-8B81F554345A.jpeg


You can find them on eBay for around $60 and it has a display, which should be nice to help calibrate what the apex is showing, and it can be configured to provide a 0-5V output.

It does also feature automatic calibration, and allows the automatic calibration to be disabled.

The plant growth CO2 meter on the right is one that I got from amazon several years ago and I really have no idea if it is accurate or not. I’ve had the new one for a couple of days now and I’ve had them side by side to compare the readings. Interestingly, when I first plugged the new one in it read about 200PPM higher than the other, but then after it had been running for about a day it started reading 300PPM lower then the other. I’m not sure if it went through an auto calibration cycle or what, but since then it has been pretty consistently 300PPM lower than the other one.

I have no reason to believe that either is accurate though, but I do see that they both rise and fall at the same time, as the CO2 level changes, so again, that’s really what I’m looking for, rather than a specific number.
 

Stevebhammer

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I have attached my CO2 sensor to the PMK (RAD-0501 CO2 monitor). I got an initial reading of 591, that was several days ago and it never changes, not updating. Any thoughts, anyone???
 

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I take it the sensor does not have display to compare against? I would power cycle the sensor and see what happens. I assume you have it configured for 0-5v output?
 
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I have attached my CO2 sensor to the PMK (RAD-0501 CO2 monitor). I got an initial reading of 591, that was several days ago and it never changes, not updating. Any thoughts, anyone???
I would check the voltage output of the sensor with a multimeter. Change the CO2 composition of it's atmosphere (a bag filled with your breath would do) and see if the voltage changes. If it doesn't you have a bad sensor or it is not set up right.
 
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So the sensor I am planning to use is the T8100-D (on the left in the picture)

830606E3-4500-40DF-BD64-8B81F554345A.jpeg


You can find them on eBay for around $60 and it has a display, which should be nice to help calibrate what the apex is showing, and it can be configured to provide a 0-5V output.

It does also feature automatic calibration, and allows the automatic calibration to be disabled.

The plant growth CO2 meter on the right is one that I got from amazon several years ago and I really have no idea if it is accurate or not. I’ve had the new one for a couple of days now and I’ve had them side by side to compare the readings. Interestingly, when I first plugged the new one in it read about 200PPM higher than the other, but then after it had been running for about a day it started reading 300PPM lower then the other. I’m not sure if it went through an auto calibration cycle or what, but since then it has been pretty consistently 300PPM lower than the other one.

I have no reason to believe that either is accurate though, but I do see that they both rise and fall at the same time, as the CO2 level changes, so again, that’s really what I’m looking for, rather than a specific number.
Awesome. I would bet that GE is more accurate than random amazon meter :) I've noticed that chinese sensors tend to be fairly precise, but very inaccurate. So for relative changes they are fine, but the actual numbers are bogus.
 

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I take it the sensor does not have display to compare against? I would power cycle the sensor and see what happens. I assume you have it configured for 0-5v output?
actually I have it set to 0-1V, the unit show output of 4-20mA (I didn't measure voltage output, maybe I should) figured it was under 1 volt. Unit does have a display and it changes, I initially set the values with apex control to match the readout of the CO2 which worked, then it just never updated. CO2 unit is still running fine...
 
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actually I have it set to 0-1V, the unit show output of 4-20mA (I didn't measure voltage output, maybe I should) figured it was under 1 volt. Unit does have a display and it changes, I initially set the values with apex control to match the readout of the CO2 which worked, then it just never updated. CO2 unit is still running fine...
I see your problem. You need one of these (or similar- you may want a industrial quality version):


4-20mA is a current signal, ASM reads voltage. Since your sensor is putting out constant voltage, but varying current, your asm is reading the constant voltage.
 

Stevebhammer

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actually I have it set to 0-1V, the unit show output of 4-20mA (I didn't measure voltage output, maybe I should) figured it was under 1 volt. Unit does have a display and it changes, I initially set the values with apex control to match the readout of the CO2 which worked, then it just never updated. CO2 unit is still running fine...
I changed it to 0-5volts and unplugged it all, restarted and the number is new, just have to wait and see if it updates...
 

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