New Ruby Red Dragonet, in QT now. Anything I should watch out for?

Glasswalker · Jul 10, 2017

Hey, so just picked up a new Ruby Red Dragonet. Been wanting one for a while.

I know my tank has a strong pod population, I have a large fuge with lots of live rock rubble, and chaeto, and I have a lot of LR in the display. I have only one other fish that would compete with him for pods (a decorated goby). I knew I couldn't sustain a Mandarin safely, but heard these guys were easier to convert, and their much smaller size meant they eat much less than a mandy does.

So I had added one to my list, as a "when the circumstances are right" thing.

Anyway, the LFS got a shipment in. so I went to take a look.

When checking them out, they looked plump, no sunken belly. So I asked how they were feeding them, the guy running the tank-room said they got an order of 5 mandarins, and 10 RRD, the mandarins aren't converting to eating prepared food, and they had lost 3 already, they moved the other 2 into their coral display tanks hoping they'd find pods... But the RRDs were all happily eating frozen brine.

I was surprised to hear this, considering they weren't listed as captive bred. So he said "here I'll show you" and went to get some frozen brine, put some in the tank, and lo and behold the little guys chased after it and ate it right up... All 5 fish left (the other 5 had sold) had a very strong feeding response, actively chasing down floating pieces, and eating several pieces in front of me.

That was one of my main concerns, is how I'd feed one in QT. So I thought now is the time, if he's got them already eating frozen food... (that said I know frozen brine isn't good enough, I'll be soaking it in a zoecon to start, and then a nutrient booster too, also will try other frozen foods as well to balance it out).

So he's at home, in his new tank. Bare bottom 7G tank I'm using as a hospital for now. I'm about to run him through my QT protocol (prophylactic treatment with Prazipro and then CP, before a month of QT observation and eventual move to my display).

I've noticed when I had him in the acclimation box he flew his dorsal fin for a bit, which was awesome, showing off his colors. I matched the tank salinity to the store salinity. Still did a half-hour drip acclimation to be safe.

So now he's in the tank. Bare bottom 7G tank, one small resin decoration to give him some shelter. I threw a bit of frozen spirulina brine into the tank (approx 0.25cc probably) just enough to see if he was interested. Some settled near him on the bare bottom, but he didn't touch it. Not abnormal, as he's likely stressed from the transfer, etc.

Anyway, continuing Quarantine protocol (normally I do CP first, then Prazi, but I am having a hard time getting CP in, so giving him 2-3 days to adjust, and get eating, then the Prazi treatment first, to buy me time to get the CP in)

Just wanted to know from those who have experience with these fish, anything in particular I should be watching our for?

Behavior?
Coloration changes?
Particular foods I should try, knowing the store had him readily eating frozen food (which I witnessed).
Any particular thing they are susceptible to (disease wise) I should watch for symptoms for (I know they have a thick slime coat like clowns, so they tend to resist external parasites like ich/velvet better than others).
Anything I should be careful about when introducing him to display?

Tank mates in the display will be:

A pair of clowns
4x BTAs (which host the clowns, they move between them lol)
One spot foxface
Purple Firefish
Decorated Goby
Rock Flower Anemone
Some Coral (both LPS/SPS)
A bunch of blue hermit crabs.

Here is a pic of him quickly taken on cell, it's a crappy pic and he's hiding behind the "furniture" but I'll get a better pic of him later with the DSLR.

jsker · Jul 10, 2017

Glasswalker · Jul 10, 2017

So today all day he's had a strong feeding response from frozen food (frozen spirulina brine, soaked in zoecon)
Melted about 1CC total of frozen spirulina brine, with a couple drops of zoecon, in about 3-5ml of tank water. Then stored in the fridge between feedings. Feeding a small amount each time (like 1ml approx)

I fed 4 times total, first time around noon, he ate right away.
Second time around 5pm, all the previous food appeared to be gone. Again he ate right away
Third time around 8pm, again all previous food appeared to be gone.
Last time just a few min ago (about 10pm) just before turning light out, some leftover food (maybe 1-2 pieces) were still floating around on the bottom.

Ordering a bottle of pods for him to load the QT tank up so I don't have to feed frozen quite so often (I figure 3 small feedings of frozen enriched brine, combined with live pods, should be enough to keep him happy and healthy) Want to make sure he's well nourished before I start treatment with Prazipro, as it may suppress appetite.

One thing I wanted to ask, he respirates faster than my other fish. But I hear they have a high metabolism. For those of you with a RRD, is gill movement approximately once every second normal? He's not agitated or swimming around rapidly. Just doing his normal sit still for a bit, then hop to new spot thing. Occasionally eating. But his gills are going about once per second. Just confirming if that's approximately normal respiration rate for this species.

Thanks!

Bronc · Jul 10, 2017

#reefsquad #humblefish

Humblefish told me that the Dragonet will not tolerate any copper, but PraziPro should be ok.

Glasswalker · Jul 10, 2017

Bronc said:
#reefsquad #humblefish

Humblefish told me that the Dragonet will not tolerate any copper, but PraziPro should be ok.

Thanks! Yeah definitely not exposing him to copper. Doing Prazipro, and CP (Chloroquine Phosphate) provided I can get a prescription for it from one of the local vets...

Giving him a few days to settle and get well fed before starting Prazi treatment, then will give another rest period before CP treatment, then a month of observation before release into DT.

melypr1985 · Jul 10, 2017

Yes, dragonets should be fine with prazipro. Typically you won't see any signs of disease at all unless it gets really bad. If you see ich spots, then it's really bad. You are more likely to see a bacterial infection before anything else. That will look like white-ish patches on the skin and care should be taken to treat that with antibiotics quickly.

Glasswalker · Jul 10, 2017

melypr1985 said:
Yes, dragonets should be fine with prazipro. Typically you won't see any signs of disease at all unless it gets really bad. If you see ich spots, then it's really bad. You are more likely to see a bacterial infection before anything else. That will look like white-ish patches on the skin and care should be taken to treat that with antibiotics quickly.

Hmm, will be tricky to identify white patches on skin with this guy (since he naturally has white spots, and he's so tiny).

So far he seems healthy/happy, and is eating well. Just want to proactively treat with prazi for internal parasites/flukes and then CP just in case velvet or ich is kicking around (I know with these guys they are more resistant to those ones, but more worried about him getting it in the gills, or carrying it into the DT).

So does anyone know what's "normal" for respiration with these guys? Just confirming. If he's respirating fast or not (gill movements roughly every 1 second). I suspect it's normal for him, but just checking as my other fish normally have slower respiration rates (unless they are excited, being very active). But I know he has a faster metabolism than others supposedly.

Rick cowen · Jul 11, 2017

These guys are awesome, ive had one in my 125gl mixed reef for about 2 months now, mine changes color at night and when he's agitated about something, he shares the tank with a very healthy 4in. Mandarin who I've also had for several months. I have a very strong pod population and I also add lrs fish eggs once daily, and he does breathe a little faster than other fish

Glasswalker · Jul 11, 2017

Well I woke up this morning to go check on him, and he somehow magically managed to go carpet surfing...

That's extremely disappointing...

Tank had a solid glass lid, but it does have about a 1/4" gap all the way around. He managed to find his way through it somehow.

dang...

kireek · Jul 11, 2017

Glasswalker said:
Well I woke up this morning to go check on him, and he somehow magically managed to go carpet surfing...

That's extremely disappointing...

Tank had a solid glass lid, but it does have about a 1/4" gap all the way around. He managed to find his way through it somehow.

dang...

Oh,no! Very unfortunate. I am sorry.

A+Aquatics · Jul 11, 2017

Wow! Not serious! Dang! What a setback

Glasswalker · Jul 11, 2017

kireek said:
Oh,no! Very unfortunate. I am sorry.

Thanks.

A+Aquatics said:
Wow! Not serious! Dang! What a setback

Yup, really didn't make my morning that's for sure. He was doing well too.

Frustrating we've only had him a little over 24h, and he jumped out... Man...

Anyway, I'm thinking of trying again, if the LFS still has stock of that batch, all 5 of the ones they had on Sunday were eating good, so I'm tempted to try and pick another one up. But I first need to figure out how to secure the tank to avoid this particular problem happening again...

It also makes me a bit concerned about my display. I have 1/4" clear netting stretched tight around a frame as my lid. It's snug fitting, but there is an opening around the return line as it's round pipe, so there is definitely holes there he could get out. I mean you can only secure it so much right? I have a fire fish no bigger than this guy was, and he's never jumped out of the display. (well he did once, but that was when we had the lid open to clean, and he got startled, and we were there so we put him right back in).

Anyway... Will have to see if I can figure something out and get back to LFS tonight before they sell the rest (if they haven't already).

I think fine nylon window screening (like they use in tents) would work fine to keep him in without blocking the light out. But need to figure out how to secure it to the tank. It's a rimless AIO cube with filter compartment in the back. As a result, I'll need to figure some trick out to attach it so it's secure and he can't just jump through a "loose" part.

jason_mazzy · Jul 11, 2017

I'm sorry for your loss

Glasswalker · Jul 11, 2017

jason_mazzy said:
I'm sorry for your loss

Thanks.

Rick cowen said:
These guys are awesome, ive had one in my 125gl mixed reef for about 2 months now, mine changes color at night and when he's agitated about something, he shares the tank with a very healthy 4in. Mandarin who I've also had for several months. I have a very strong pod population and I also add lrs fish eggs once daily, and he does breathe a little faster than other fish

Good to know the respiration is normally a bit faster than others (as I guessed, likely related to the increased metabolism).

So I think we're going to make another attempt... LFS still had a few from the same batch that were eating frozen food well. So I think I'll go back tonight and pick another one up, but first we'll solve the "escape route".

Decided for the small QT tank, I'm going to use an acrylic lid (I have some spare acrylic sheets, I can cut one to size, and drill a few aeration holes that are far too small for the fish to fit through). The acrylic will sit flush on top of the rimless tank (instead of "inside" it with a gap like the current one). As a result there will be absolutely no gap to escape through.

Also I'll add an aerator/bubbler to the rear filtration chamber to ensure I've got enough gas exchange.

For my display tank, I'll have to come up with a better mesh for the lid, to ensure we don't have a similar incident once he's transferred there. Though there will still be some gap around the return line, I can minimize it.

Rick cowen · Jul 11, 2017

I'll be honest, I don't have a lid on mine.

Glasswalker · Jul 12, 2017

Ok, so the "CSPA" is complete (Carpet Surfing Prevention Assembly). AKA: New lid.

And we picked up another little guy yesterday. Also added some cheap resin gravel to the tank (after washing it thoroughly and rinsing in RO) figuring it can either be tossed, or cleaned thoroughly after QT, but I noticed the bare reflective bottom seemed to be an issue for the other guy (he drifted in the current when trying to sleep, and would occasionally get wigged out by it it seemed). So this should address that.

I attempted feeding shrimp when I got him into the new tank, and he showed no interest. And I noticed this guy does look a little skinny compared to the last one. I'm hoping he'll eat. I did grab some Chaeto from my main sump, with some pods, and added to the QT, with the pump off for a bit (gave it a good shake in the water first to hopefully displace some of the pods, then tucked it into the decoration we have so it's secure, I'll toss it a bit later). I did notice after doing this he picked a bit at a few things (assuming he found some pods).

This morning I woke up, he was sleeping, and I turned the lights back on, added another small ball of chaeto, same method. He woke up shortly after turning the light on and started pecking at the rocks. So hopefully he's getting food.

Later today, I'll attempt the shrimp again, see if he'll take some. Hoping he will.

As a safety precaution I've ordered a large bottle of tisbe pods to be delivered tomorrow. So that should give him ample food for a while, so I can sort out feeding. I'm hoping I didn't get the one guy in the bunch that wasn't eating frozen food... Either way I'll go through the training process if he's not eating frozen food, and get him onto brine, and then frozen if possible. If I can get him eating frozen reliably then I can combine a brine feeder with my natural pod population in the display and should be fine.

Will post more updates as we go.

Rick cowen · Jul 12, 2017

Wish you the best of luck with the new one.

Glasswalker · Jul 13, 2017

Quick update, he's officially outlasted his predecessor... Which is both good... And Sad

Anyway, good news is he's very active and doing well. He's even "roared" with his dorsal fin up a few times which was neat to watch.

I've got 2 balls of chaeto in there from my fuge, and he has definitely been eating the frozen brine (which I'm soaking in Zoecon and using Spirulina enriched brine, so should have some good nutrients for him). In the meantime I've ordered a large bottle of pods which should be delivered today. He's already plumped up a bit from when I got him, I'm going to put about half the pods in the tank. with him to start them off, and save the rest to restore the pods in case they get nuked by the Prazi treatment.

Unsure if CP kills pods (suspect it might). Anyway, he's definitely eating the frozen brine, but only probably 1/3 of what I put in, as he only goes after the bits that settle down, he ignores anything floating in the water column. So I'm feeding in small amounts as frequently as I can. (about 3-4 times a day).

This will likely foul the water pretty quick in the tiny tank he's in, but luckily water changes are nice and easy in a tiny tank like that.

Just have to get through QT process, then can move to the DT where he should have lots of food. Will likely build a feeder for him as well, just to be 100% sure, but we'll cross that bridge once I get him to DT.

Anyway, here are some pics I took of him (again crappy phone pics) this morning:

Bronc · Jul 13, 2017

Glasswalker said:
Quick update, he's officially outlasted his predecessor... Which is both good... And Sad

Anyway, good news is he's very active and doing well. He's even "roared" with his dorsal fin up a few times which was neat to watch.

I've got 2 balls of chaeto in there from my fuge, and he has definitely been eating the frozen brine (which I'm soaking in Zoecon and using Spirulina enriched brine, so should have some good nutrients for him). In the meantime I've ordered a large bottle of pods which should be delivered today. He's already plumped up a bit from when I got him, I'm going to put about half the pods in the tank. with him to start them off, and save the rest to restore the pods in case they get nuked by the Prazi treatment.

Unsure if CP kills pods (suspect it might). Anyway, he's definitely eating the frozen brine, but only probably 1/3 of what I put in, as he only goes after the bits that settle down, he ignores anything floating in the water column. So I'm feeding in small amounts as frequently as I can. (about 3-4 times a day).

This will likely foul the water pretty quick in the tiny tank he's in, but luckily water changes are nice and easy in a tiny tank like that.

Just have to get through QT process, then can move to the DT where he should have lots of food. Will likely build a feeder for him as well, just to be 100% sure, but we'll cross that bridge once I get him to DT.

Anyway, here are some pics I took of him (again crappy phone pics) this morning: