New Tang is Dying
- Thread starter TinaFoster
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TinaFoster
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Have an airstone in there, figuring the copper would take the oxygen out. I moved the airstone from the bottom of the tank to nearer the top, though it was still breaking bubbles on the surface I thought it might have been aggravating him. I have garlic extract and selcon both, but he just wont eat today. Maybe since he's off the substrate he can fight it, but I'm trying not to get my hopes up. Thanks for helping me think of stuff--you never know when one thing is overlooked and that's the thing that would turn it around. Think I'm nearly as stressed as the fish is!
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TinaFoster
Well-Known Member
Oh yeah--before lights out tonight I put some bacteria supplement in just in case too many bacteria were killed off by the meds. Even though the nitrogen cycle parameters all came back 0, I thought it can't hurt.
I'm just so afraid he's got gill flukes or something and the cupramine might not be effective. Or a bacterial infection. Driving me crazy!
I'm just so afraid he's got gill flukes or something and the cupramine might not be effective. Or a bacterial infection. Driving me crazy!
NeedBiggerTank
MTRC Member
Was the tang exibiting symptoms of illness the day you brought him home from AC?
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TinaFoster
Well-Known Member
None at all. He was however on the AC system where there was a batfish lying on the substrate gilling like mad, and several fish scratching. I knew there was something in the water. My fish, though, was swimming great, eating great, looking flawless, etc. and acclimated very well. Dunno what could change so rapidly in him when his water stayed stable. It's the hard part--the stuff we can't control. Ack!
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TinaFoster
Well-Known Member
He's gone. Crap.
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TinaFoster
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the condolences. I was feeling so guilty about the possibility that I did it giving him Cupramine that I tested the water just now and it came out to absolutely 0. But I saved the water from the water change yesterday in case I needed to test it for anything I forgot should anyone ask me for more information, so I then tested that water for copper . It also came out 0. This didn't make sense, so I thought ok something might be wrong with this test. It IS an API after all. But tried one more thing--I put some cupramine in the old water and tested again immediately. Got a reading! So I know for sure I didn't kill him with copper. That helps. I tested one more time for ammonia as well, in case I missed a drop or something. It also came out 0, even in the old water. So it seems whatever it was couldn't be helped, or at least I honestly didn't know how to help him. Still crappy though!
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TinaFoster
Well-Known Member
The reason I thought it might have been one of these things is today after he was gone I could get a look in his gills and they were red. Also, the gill plate was pink today and yesterday it was not. Gill flukes or something?
New Wave
Active Member
im going to post here.. knowing that alot of you are probably going to disagree... but for those of you who know me... i have a fairly decent sucess rate with fish... so im going to post how i buy fish and what i do for them... not saying what i say is gospel but... it works for me... when i first started ... i lost fish after fish... so many that one day i got upset enough to do math... and research... and compared that with my experience... and find the following to be true...
there is alot of fingers in the pie when it comes to collecting, shipping, acclimating... selling, buying, and putting a fish in your tank...
who knows who, what , when , and where the "wrong" thing may have hapened... and who cares... here are some simple rules when it comes to getting fish...
1. if you can... always buy "tank raised" fish... now you and i both know... that sometimes the fish we really want are not "tank raised" so just know that if you buy a fish that is not tank raised... the probability of that fish surviving is 48%... less that half a chance....
there are ways of helping improve your odds... but you still have to accept the fact that its a coin toss...
2. never buy a fish that you have not seen... sure... the mail order business is less expensive... but if youre going to order SW fish... buy twice as many as you want... at least that way.. you may have the ammount you want survive...
3. dont take anyone at their word for how "healthy" a fish is... look at it closely... because you probably know as much about a "healthy" fish as anyone...
look closely at the fins... if they are not "perfect" with smooth outer lin lines... then you know youre odds are already not as good...
if youre buying a scale-less fish... ask the LFS if there is copper in the system... copper kills scale-less fish.. ie.. puffers... and such... if youre planning to pay a ton of money for a scale-less fish... ask the LFS to test for copper and show you... because... COPPER KILLS SCALE-LESS FISH... maybe not instantly... but omost definately.
alot of people stress on a fish quarantine... in my experience... i have to respectfully disagree... odds are your quarantine is going to be more stress on a fish than any parasite... (look for visible signs of parasites on your fish before you buy them... ich isnt that big a deal... assuming its not covered... check more for flukes.. open wounds.. infections.. lumps on the body... things of that nature... if you find them... i suggest.. dont buy it..
also ask if the fish is eating... and dont be afraid to ask to see it eat... if its a tang ask to see it eat nori... ask what kinds of food os being fed while there... if they say ghost shrimp or any other fresh water food sources... pass it up.... that could potentially be a problem... of course... maybe its a rare fish... and some knuckle head thinks its fun to see the fish tear up a gold fish... maybe you have to buy it... but know that youre stacking the odds against you...
when you get the fish home... i do about a 1/2 hour acclimation... i float the bag for 15 min... then dump half the water out... and fill the bag again with 1/2 tank water... float for another 15 minutes... then at this point... ill either "dip" the fish using a parasite and fluke chemical... or more popularlarly by me.. a fresh water dip... and then release them into the main system...
the fish is going to live... or it wont... good selection methods and less stress is going to DRASTICALLY improve your odds...
myth (in my opinion) SG differences... i dont stress over the SG... the SG in the ocean changes a few points and different depths... at river inlets... rain... all sorts of variables... i dont believe a slight SG shift will kill a fish... and i havent had any problems taking a health fish thru SG changes
myth (temperature change) same as above... just as ling as its not drastic
treatment for ich... no chemicals... ich exhists... i dont care what people claim they can remove it from their system... its pointless... a healthy fish can deal with ich on its own... the only thing i do when i see any sign of ich is feed vegitables and garlic... i do not include meaty foods during an ich vegitable diet... it forces the fish to eat their vegies... which builds their immune system a little...
all the chemicals and fingers in an aquarium only stress a fish... and stress is what kills a fish... pick the best one you can... treat it up front.. with as little intervention as possible... and let it go... youll be suprised how far these little tips will take you...
like i said earlier.. i know a bunch of you disagree... but try it ;)
-mel
there is alot of fingers in the pie when it comes to collecting, shipping, acclimating... selling, buying, and putting a fish in your tank...
who knows who, what , when , and where the "wrong" thing may have hapened... and who cares... here are some simple rules when it comes to getting fish...
1. if you can... always buy "tank raised" fish... now you and i both know... that sometimes the fish we really want are not "tank raised" so just know that if you buy a fish that is not tank raised... the probability of that fish surviving is 48%... less that half a chance....
there are ways of helping improve your odds... but you still have to accept the fact that its a coin toss...
2. never buy a fish that you have not seen... sure... the mail order business is less expensive... but if youre going to order SW fish... buy twice as many as you want... at least that way.. you may have the ammount you want survive...
3. dont take anyone at their word for how "healthy" a fish is... look at it closely... because you probably know as much about a "healthy" fish as anyone...
look closely at the fins... if they are not "perfect" with smooth outer lin lines... then you know youre odds are already not as good...
if youre buying a scale-less fish... ask the LFS if there is copper in the system... copper kills scale-less fish.. ie.. puffers... and such... if youre planning to pay a ton of money for a scale-less fish... ask the LFS to test for copper and show you... because... COPPER KILLS SCALE-LESS FISH... maybe not instantly... but omost definately.
alot of people stress on a fish quarantine... in my experience... i have to respectfully disagree... odds are your quarantine is going to be more stress on a fish than any parasite... (look for visible signs of parasites on your fish before you buy them... ich isnt that big a deal... assuming its not covered... check more for flukes.. open wounds.. infections.. lumps on the body... things of that nature... if you find them... i suggest.. dont buy it..
also ask if the fish is eating... and dont be afraid to ask to see it eat... if its a tang ask to see it eat nori... ask what kinds of food os being fed while there... if they say ghost shrimp or any other fresh water food sources... pass it up.... that could potentially be a problem... of course... maybe its a rare fish... and some knuckle head thinks its fun to see the fish tear up a gold fish... maybe you have to buy it... but know that youre stacking the odds against you...
when you get the fish home... i do about a 1/2 hour acclimation... i float the bag for 15 min... then dump half the water out... and fill the bag again with 1/2 tank water... float for another 15 minutes... then at this point... ill either "dip" the fish using a parasite and fluke chemical... or more popularlarly by me.. a fresh water dip... and then release them into the main system...
the fish is going to live... or it wont... good selection methods and less stress is going to DRASTICALLY improve your odds...
myth (in my opinion) SG differences... i dont stress over the SG... the SG in the ocean changes a few points and different depths... at river inlets... rain... all sorts of variables... i dont believe a slight SG shift will kill a fish... and i havent had any problems taking a health fish thru SG changes
myth (temperature change) same as above... just as ling as its not drastic
treatment for ich... no chemicals... ich exhists... i dont care what people claim they can remove it from their system... its pointless... a healthy fish can deal with ich on its own... the only thing i do when i see any sign of ich is feed vegitables and garlic... i do not include meaty foods during an ich vegitable diet... it forces the fish to eat their vegies... which builds their immune system a little...
all the chemicals and fingers in an aquarium only stress a fish... and stress is what kills a fish... pick the best one you can... treat it up front.. with as little intervention as possible... and let it go... youll be suprised how far these little tips will take you...
like i said earlier.. i know a bunch of you disagree... but try it ;)
-mel
gmoney243
2500 Club Member
yea i agree with mel when i was starting in FW fish i had some ich outbreaks at first .. but while reading up on SW cause this is what ive always liked best and wanted to do .. i came across books and numerous articles from marine biology professors and long time aquarist whos said they only temp acclimate and have proven better survival this way .. one guy said its like if u had a bag over your head would u poke holes and slowly give ur self air or rip the bag off ... made sense so ever since then i try to get the fish into good water ASAP cause bag water goes bad fast and small spaces stress fish
NeedBiggerTank
MTRC Member
I would add a few more tips to what Mel said:
1) Never buy a fish from a tank that has a dead fish or dying fish in it... cause you don't know if the other fish in that tank are OK, exposed to what killed the fish or infected with what killed the fish
2) always wait a minimum of two weeks to bring the fish home - most LFS will allow you to buy the fish and hold it for you. This way if the fish gets sick and/or dies, they will replace it with a healthy fish (always ask when the fish arrived at the store)
3) If you are going to use quarantine don't treat the fish unless the fish is showing definate symtoms and you are sure of the disease/parasite and then select the appropriate medication/treatment
I am very sorry for your loss. We have all been there, believe me! I'm embarrased to say how many CBBs have gone to the here-after from our tank. Jim keeps swearing up and down that won't bring another one home... until he shows up with the next one! Don't be too hard on yourself. :)
Edited: Meant to also say to call AC, ask for Chris, tell him about the fish dying - see if they won't give you a partial credit or refund on another Mimic Tang. Might remind them that he came from the same tank as that bat fish.
1) Never buy a fish from a tank that has a dead fish or dying fish in it... cause you don't know if the other fish in that tank are OK, exposed to what killed the fish or infected with what killed the fish
2) always wait a minimum of two weeks to bring the fish home - most LFS will allow you to buy the fish and hold it for you. This way if the fish gets sick and/or dies, they will replace it with a healthy fish (always ask when the fish arrived at the store)
3) If you are going to use quarantine don't treat the fish unless the fish is showing definate symtoms and you are sure of the disease/parasite and then select the appropriate medication/treatment
I am very sorry for your loss. We have all been there, believe me! I'm embarrased to say how many CBBs have gone to the here-after from our tank. Jim keeps swearing up and down that won't bring another one home... until he shows up with the next one! Don't be too hard on yourself. :)
Edited: Meant to also say to call AC, ask for Chris, tell him about the fish dying - see if they won't give you a partial credit or refund on another Mimic Tang. Might remind them that he came from the same tank as that bat fish.
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TinaFoster
Well-Known Member
They actually did say they'd credit me if I brought the fish in yesterday, even though it was still alive. But it's an hour trip, and I felt it would stress the fish even more. And it would die for sure that way. I wanted to give him a chance. It wasn't that expensive, anyway. Just disappointing. He was soooooo pretty!
I don't want another though. At least not from the Philippines. A friend who is a longtime veteran of the hobby told me when I said it was a mimic tang, it didn't come from the Philippines did it? If it did it likely was poisoned to catch it, and it will die, and there's nothing you can do. So now I'm afraid that might be it, and I don't want to do that again.
I don't want another though. At least not from the Philippines. A friend who is a longtime veteran of the hobby told me when I said it was a mimic tang, it didn't come from the Philippines did it? If it did it likely was poisoned to catch it, and it will die, and there's nothing you can do. So now I'm afraid that might be it, and I don't want to do that again.
NeedBiggerTank
MTRC Member
I hate to tell that the Phillipines is not the only place where they use Cyanide (or other horrible methods) of catching fish.
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TinaFoster
Well-Known Member
Is there some way of knowing which collection areas are likely poison catch areas? It bites to think about going through this again and again,and I know Mel touched on this saying tank raised is best but we sometimes want a fish it's impossible to get tank raised.
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TinaFoster
Well-Known Member
And why isn't there an animal cruelty agency or greenpeace or something going after the people that use harmful methods to catch fish?
NeedBiggerTank
MTRC Member
I may be wrong about this, but I think "tank raised" are still wild collected juvenile fish that are reared in a tank. "tank bred" or "aquacultered" fish are fish that are born and reared in a tank (though they may have wild parents or tank bred parents). Somebody correct me if that is wrong.
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