New Tank Cycle Process

[Melin108]

Hello,

So I've been about 10 days into my new tank endeavor, and I've been testing for Ammonia (still 0 when I tested), Nitrite (0), and Nitrate and I think that's sitting around a 10ppm. Does this mean that my cycle is complete and I can add my next fish? I'll attach my Nitrate test from a day ago - all ammonia and nitrite undetectable. I started with CaribSea Live Sand, CaribSea Life Rock Shapes, a bottle of Dr. Tim's and then a couple days later due to a mistake of having my carbon and gfo in, I added another bottle of Bio-Spira.

I'm looking to add a Blenny of some sort (looking for suggestions in 20G Peninsula, leaning towards a Tailspot), so that I can have it help with algae a little bit, and they look like super cool friends to add.

My main question - is my cycle already done when I'm showing Nitrates of 10ppm-ish? Probably around 13 would be my guess, and does that mean I'm clear to add another fish? I'm still running without lights and I have some Microbacter Clean so I'm wondering when do I add the Carbon and GFO back (like do I wait for testable levels of something or is it too early), when do I start the Microbacter clean to start algae prevention as recommended by a BRS on their YouTube channel, and lastly as noted above is it safe to plan for the next utilitarian fish?

Overall, It's been about 10-ish days since tank start, I didn't expect the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate combo to happen as fast as it did. I plan on following the advice above and still waiting until day 10-13 to do a water change, so that'd be between today and Wednesday. I've watch Ammonia very close and have one of those hang on the side alert ammonia things too to watch 24/7.

Any suggestions would be helpful and encouraged!

 

[brandon429]

youll see a recurring theme in searchable Dr Tim's post

10 day action

something always changes on the test kits by day ten, and that matches bottle dates on the label. if you added no ammonia at all and this has been a consistent reading hold, that's different than directly adding either liquid ammonia or fish food, noticing a spike, and the ammonia comes down by day ten. if that happened, you are 100% cycled, change water for new/clean and begin. only ammonia matters, not nitrite, its an updated change in today's reef tank cycling vs yesteryear 1968


even if you haven't fed the tank, the room has and its likely still cycled. if you added no feed till now, add in one ground up pinch of flake food, wait 5 more days, change water and begin that's a certain cycle anyway. if this was vegas im all chips in you are cycled right now having met bottle date directions specific to the strain. any rocks and sand contacted for ten days by that stew w be active.

 

[polyppal]

When you setup the tank initially what was the ammonia source? A fish or something else?

Did the tank go through an ammonia spike followed by a nitrate spike?

 

[VelocityTech]

you need to buy nitrafying bacteria in a bottle. microbacter 7 look into that. dr Tim's makes some too. skips the amonia stage

 

[Melin108]

Hello,

When you setup the tank initially what was the ammonia source? A fish or something else?

Did the tank go through an ammonia spike followed by a nitrate spike?

Thank you all for the responses. Yes I did start with 2 clowns that were always together. I used Dr. Tims the day I put them in which I am now on my 14th day. The cycle process must already be completed because basically the whole time I was getting 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and now I show that level of nitrate in the picture.

I made the mistake of adding the Dr. Tims though when I had my Carbon and GFO running, that was on 2/5. Then on 2/9 I pulled the Carbon and GFO because I was told the bacteria could house in that instead of on my rock and MarinePure, and added a bottle of Bio-Spira because that's all my local place had during this polar vortex and the others would've frozen for sure in shipping.

I'm looking to do my first water change, but knowing the information above - I've wait 10 days like recommended with Dr. Tims, but then I also had carbon and gfo in, and now the second dose of bacteria in the form of Bio-Spira has been in there for 7 days. (so not 10 more days).

Think I'm good to go ahead and change my water out 20% without impacting the cycle that has apparently already completed?

Thank you!

 

[brandon429]

for sure, you can change all the water and it will not harm the cycle, they're adhered specifically by now in every case. the double inoculation sealed the deal.

 

[Melin108]

Thanks for the advice. I did the water change tonight, 20%. All is well thus far. I used RO/DI for everything, heated the replacement water to the temp, went smooth. Made it 24 hours in advance and adjusted the salinity with RO/DI right before add (giving it time to warm up and testing again with refractometer).

When should I add the Carbon and GFO back, based on some parameters or is there a good rule of thumb? I have them but I don't want to run them to early, I actually even have replacement media already.

Also I have a DC skimmer for the tank that I haven't put in there either yet because you aren't supposed to do that when you are cycling, or at least when you are waiting for the bacteria to establish, so since I'm cycled - am I good to throw the protein skimmer and the carbon and GFO in, or wait?

Thank you!

 

[Melin108]

I need some help with 75 gallon my ammonia is reading 8.0ppm but some days its reading 0ppm and then my nitrate goes up to between 20-40ppm

I'm new/returning to the hobby but my first question would be have you been adding new ammonia sources like new fish?

What kind of surface area do you have in your tank, rock and things like MarinePure? You may actually want to consider dosing some nitrifying bacteria like I did for my initial cycle. May help stabilize what's happening. Unless you are adding a bunch of foreign contaminants or feeding excessively it's my understanding that after the cycle you should not be seeing these types of spikes unless you add a big bio load.

 

[polyppal]

Hello,


Thank you all for the responses. Yes I did start with 2 clowns that were always together. I used Dr. Tims the day I put them in which I am now on my 14th day. The cycle process must already be completed because basically the whole time I was getting 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and now I show that level of nitrate in the picture.

I made the mistake of adding the Dr. Tims though when I had my Carbon and GFO running, that was on 2/5. Then on 2/9 I pulled the Carbon and GFO because I was told the bacteria could house in that instead of on my rock and MarinePure, and added a bottle of Bio-Spira because that's all my local place had during this polar vortex and the others would've frozen for sure in shipping.

I'm looking to do my first water change, but knowing the information above - I've wait 10 days like recommended with Dr. Tims, but then I also had carbon and gfo in, and now the second dose of bacteria in the form of Bio-Spira has been in there for 7 days. (so not 10 more days).

Think I'm good to go ahead and change my water out 20% without impacting the cycle that has apparently already completed?

Thank you!

Yeah it seems like your tank is cycled then, good cycling bacterias can speed up the process big-time. You should be fine adding a blenny if your ammonia is in the >.02 range. Just keep an eye on it for the next few weeks because NH/No3 can unexpectedly fluctuate in a new tank.

As others stated, youd be fine (in fact recommended) to do water changes, it wont affect the cycle since the bacteria has had plenty of time to establish on surfaces in the tank. Id start MBC if/once you notice some algae starting to establish, though ive never personally had much luck with it...

I usually run carbon and a -tiny- amount of GFO in a reactor after the cycle has completed. Skimmer is good to get going now too. In a tank as small as yours, id run like a teaspoon with the carbon and replace it when you replace carbon. It will do alot to keep the ugly stage at bay, but its ez to strip out all your phosphates with GFO so be careful.

I cant recommend enough getting a good utilitarian fish, like a herbivore blenny. Lawnmower would be my go-to but prob a bit too big for a 20g, something like a tailspot blenny would be perfect.

Sounds like youve done your research and your doing things right! Just be careful about adding too much livestock at once. After the blenny id wait a few weeks then evaluate if your tank can handle more bioload comfortably.

 

[polyppal]

Side note - not sure if you QTd your fish before adding them to the tank, but sounds like you didnt. At your early stage (after adding your blenny) might be wise to run your tank at Hyposalinity (1.009) for 30 days to eradicate the ich that is -likely- in the system. Hypo is very gentle on fish and will wipe out marine algae and ich in the system after 4 weeks. Not as good as true QT but effective at least towards Ich and Flukes.

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity (Osmotic Shock Therapy) What It Treats – Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and Flukes (Monogeneans). How To Treat – Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually lower the SG...

www.reef2reef.com

(Cant have corals/inverts in system)

 

[polyppal]

That’s how my tank looks now and those are my water peremiters. My ammonia went up after me testing it Monday it being 0 and nitrate went up

What was your cycling method? Answer the following Qs for me:

Did you use a cycling bacteria? If so which one?
Are you using RODI water?
How did you get ammonia in the tank? (fish/ammonium chloride/raw shrimp/etc)?
Is there anything alive in the tank right now (though prob not with that ammonia level)?
Are you employing a protein skimmer? Reactor? Refugium?

 

[Melin108]

Thanks for the input! Everyone is super helpful, great community. Questions on your response.

In a tank as small as yours, id run like a teaspoon with the carbon and replace it when you replace carbon

Initial clarifications first. I'm assuming the typo here is run a teaspoon of GFO with the carbon and replace when I do the carbon?

Overall - should run a small amount of Carbon and GFO to start? The problem is I only have those pre-packaged ones included with the tank (Nuvo Peninsula 20g) and I naively purchased the next couple months supply already - no big deal. I could cut them open, split it in half and put them in some mesh bags from BRS potentially. It's Rox 0.8 supposedly in those baggies, they say the Carbon and GFO baggies last 1 month. Should I buy some bulk carbon for small additions initially and save those bags when the need is higher or did I just waste money.

Side note - not sure if you QTd your fish before adding them to the tank, but sounds like you didnt. At your early stage (after adding your blenny) might be wise to run your tank at Hyposalinity (1.009) for 30 days to eradicate the ich that is -likely- in the system. Hypo is very gentle on fish and will wipe out marine algae and ich in the system after 4 weeks. Not as good as true QT but effective at least towards Ich and Flukes.

You are absolutely correct, as it's my first system back in the hobby again I did NOT QT my fish. I really went back and forth on this for my initial setup, and you are absolutely right that Ich is probably in there now. Could I do hyposalinity as early in my tank as I am now? I know my LFS that I got them from runs low salinity in general, but nothing that low. I currently run at 1.025. I will have to read what you posted to get the details on how to ease into hypo and ease out of it. Is there another option for me since I didn't QT?

Lawnmower would be my go-to but prob a bit too big for a 20g, something like a tailspot blenny would be perfect.

You are absolutely right. I'm after a Tailspot, I've heard the personality alone is worth it. I'm super excited about it, which is rare for me to get excited about anything.

Not to make this post too overly crowded, but my last question is I have Microbacter Clean, on ready to put in before I turn the lights on, as I've read online. How long should I wait before purchasing lights and putting them on? I want to try to avoid the ugly stage as you noted, as much as possible!

Thank you again!

 

[Melin108]

That’s how my tank looks now and those are my water peremiters. My ammonia went up after me testing it Monday it being 0 and nitrate went up

Firstly I would do a big water change right away.

Then I would add some bacteria right away, seems like things are off. It's Dr. Tims One and Only Nitrifying Bacteria, not the ammonia additive that you want. If you can't get that Microbacter has one and also Bio-Spira is even carried at places like Petco usually. You mentioned also some inverts dying in the tank, were you able to remove those or are those decaying as well? That could add a huge boost to your ammonia levels.

 

[polyppal]

Yes cycling bacteria bio spira and microbelift special blend
No RODI water & tap water but I use seachem prime 500ml bottle
I had fish they died & after they died I dropped roughly 75 drop of ammonium chloride in my tank thinking that’s gonna clear my ammonia
No skimmer reactor or refugium

#1) You need to learn some fundementals to be successful in this hobby, you cant 'wing it' and solve problems in this hobby. 90% of people who jump in without research fail fairly quickly. I recommend watching the @BRS video series on youtube to familiarize yourself with the basics of saltwater/reef tanks.

#2) RODI water is ESSENTIAL to success. Theres a few guys on here that will jump in and disagree, but ignore them, 99% of successful reefkeepers will agree. Prime wont fix water quality, you cant 'condition' tap water in marine tanks like you can in freshwater. Your #1 priority should be getting RODI. Doesn't have to be expensive, this one is $60, and is the same model ive used for more than a decade:


Heres what I would recommend:

- Fully drain the tank. Remove all tap water from they system. Rinse your rocks and sand in clean RODI water.
- Looks like your using a canister filter. These generally aren't recommended for marine tanks, but if you stick to it replace that media with something recommended for marine tanks (if not already doing so).
- Fill tank with RODI saltwater, turn on heater and maintain at 78deg
- Add cycling bacteria.
- Add a raw shrimp to the tank (stay away from NH4Cl if your inexperienced).
- Wait 2 weeks and start testing. Use that 2 weeks to do research and watch BRS videos on reefing.
- Once ammonia is gone and nitrates are high, should be cycled. Start 20%+ water changes.

 

[Melin108]

Yes I took out all the inverts currently I’m using microbelift special blend

It's good that you removed them, and also good that you added some bacteria.

RODI water is ESSENTIAL to success.

I'm still new and coming back, but from all my research before coming back and months of preparation before setting my new tank up, I agree with Zatch on this one fully. It's a huge fundamental building block for all of the rest of it, clean water just equals better results as far as I understand. Especially because a lot of city water has tons of silicates and other nasties.

If you are unable to follow @zatch advice fully at this point I would do a huge water change and add more bacteria once you've done that. Seems like something is overrunning your current culture and it can't keep up. If unfortunately your livestock doesn't make it this time I would wait until you have stable levels with ghost feeding as @zatch mentioned until your levels are stable. Then you should only add things in slowly. You have a bigger tank than mine but in my size I shouldn't probably add more than a single fish every couple of weeks, and that's with testing to make sure things are good.

Were you using old rock or sand by chance in this build? Old sand and rock and release a ridiculous amount of bad stuff in early stages of a tank, especially if you didn't cure the rock if it was live at one point.

 

[polyppal]

Thanks for the input! Everyone is super helpful, great community. Questions on your response.



Initial clarifications first. I'm assuming the typo here is run a teaspoon of GFO with the carbon and replace when I do the carbon?

Overall - should run a small amount of Carbon and GFO to start? The problem is I only have those pre-packaged ones included with the tank (Nuvo Peninsula 20g) and I naively purchased the next couple months supply already - no big deal. I could cut them open, split it in half and put them in some mesh bags from BRS potentially. It's Rox 0.8 supposedly in those baggies, they say the Carbon and GFO baggies last 1 month. Should I buy some bulk carbon for small additions initially and save those bags when the need is higher or did I just waste money.


You are absolutely correct, as it's my first system back in the hobby again I did NOT QT my fish. I really went back and forth on this for my initial setup, and you are absolutely right that Ich is probably in there now. Could I do hyposalinity as early in my tank as I am now? I know my LFS that I got them from runs low salinity in general, but nothing that low. I currently run at 1.025. I will have to read what you posted to get the details on how to ease into hypo and ease out of it. Is there another option for me since I didn't QT?


You are absolutely right. I'm after a Tailspot, I've heard the personality alone is worth it. I'm super excited about it, which is rare for me to get excited about anything.

Not to make this post too overly crowded, but my last question is I have Microbacter Clean, on ready to put in before I turn the lights on, as I've read online. How long should I wait before purchasing lights and putting them on? I want to try to avoid the ugly stage as you noted, as much as possible!

Thank you again!

Yeah sorry i meant 1tsp GFO with carbon. If you are using prepackaged bags, then dont worry about any of that. Thought you were using bulk ROX and GFO. The prepackaged ones will do fine, just use them as directed.

Yes you can start hypo right away, but youll want to gradually lower your salinity to 1.009 - not for the sake of the fish (they can handle sudden drops in salinity without problems) but going slowly will prevent your bacteria from shocking and dying off. Id replace about 2 gallons a day with RODI water until it hits 1.009, might take about a week but no hurry. Fish respond very well to hypo, essentially because hypo water is less dense it is actually easier on the fish's system (in fact they usually seem to thrive in hypo conditions). You cant keep them in it forever though, beyond about 7-8 weeks its said they can develop organ problems, but its no threat at 30 days. The important thing is that after the 30 days in hypo you slowly bring the tank back up to 1.024, about .002-.003 per day. The only other alternative now that you have them in a display is to properly QT them 4 weeks in a separate tank and restart (or fallow) your display tank which would be a pain... The nice thing about hypo is that you can essentially enjoy the fish as you would normally while they are being treated for a few common diseases.

Youll love tailspots, one of my favorite fish!

Lighting and excess nutrients are the big fuel source for algae. For the first couple of months, I would only run the lights when your home and want to look at the fish. The ambient room light is more than sufficient enough for the fish, they wont care. That with keeping up on water changes should help alot - probably wont escape it entirely but it will be less of hassle than most.

 

[Melin108]

What brand of bacteria should I use

From all the research I've gone most people recommend Dr. Tim's One and Only, but I've also read that a lot of them are essentially similar and it just matters that you use them as directed, and wait the correct amount of time, essentially follow what it says on the bottle.

These were my water levels Monday
Feb 15

Salinity - 1.022

High range pH - 8.0

Ammonia - 0

When did you add the ammonia additive, was that recently like after the spike, or did you use that before any fish to get the cycle going with the nitrifying bacteria?

 

[polyppal]

What brand of bacteria should I use

The bacteria doesnt really matter much, they will all do the same thing. If you already have some microbater7 just stick with that. If you need to get another bottle I use this one:

 

[Melin108]

The only other alternative now that you have them in a display is to properly QT them 4 weeks in a separate tank and restart (or fallow) your display tank which would be a pain... The nice thing about hypo is that you can essentially enjoy the fish as you would normally while they are being treated for a few common diseases.

Amazing advice, I will prep to do this I think. All for the success.

Yeah I think restarting would be a problem with my space constraints right now, maybe I regret not doing QT initially but as mentioned it was hard enough to convince the wife I needed one tank haha.

I'm assuming you'd recommend waiting to add the Blenny until after I finish the hypo process correct?

Thanks again!

 

[Melin108]

After the spike

If you did this after the spike then that's your issue absolutely. The bacteria can't keep up with the sudden spike. I would definitely do a large water change and add some additional bacteria potentially. Your sudden spike earlier in the week was probably still catching up with the new additions or decaying matter/food waste from the recent past.

Zatch confirmed my idea that they are mostly the same so that bacteria doesn't really matter, but the reason you are seeing the spike is absolutely live stock changes that grew the ammonia (and or decay or using OLD live rock or sand) and then in response to the ammonia spike you accidently added more ammonia.

A water change is essential right now I think, also I would think about getting maybe more bacteria since you'll be taking some out with the water change if you recently added the Nitrifying bacteria. Stay away from the ammonia additive especially if you already have live stock in there, it's like dripping poison on them.

Other than that, there are things you can add like Ammo-Lock or other brands that I know remove ammonia suddenly (available at most fish stores) but the problem I've read is that they turn it into a form of Nitrogen or Nitrates(like) that are even more difficult to remove from the system.