New tank, Cycling question

[GazS]

Hi all,

Sorry for another cycling question, there are quite a few threads and articles but im still not sure what to do in my current situation.

I have a waterbox 15G, I used Fiji Skeleton Rock (dead) living stone but I didnt cure (maybe mistake #1). My issue is that ammonia and nitrate seem to stay the same but nitrate is sky high >100.

I am using salifert tests. Lights are off, I am using fishless cycling with dr tims and dosing ammonia chorlide as per instructions. I was also recommended to dose Microbacter7 by lfs, so i do this daily (mistake #2?)

So my question is, is this dead rock die off? is this just normal cycle? Any advice on what i should proceed to do ?

Parameters :

Day	PH	NH3	NO2	Nitrate	KH / Alk	Temp	Salinity
1	8.15	0.15	0.1	2.5	8.3	26c	1.025 / 33
2	8.15	0.25	0.1	2.5		26c	1.025 / 33
3	8.2	0.5	0.025	2.5		26c	1.025 / 33
4	8.2	0.5-1.0	0.025	5		26c	1.025 / 33
5	8.2	0.5	0.1	10		26c	1.025 / 33
6	8.2	0.5	0.1	25		26c	1.025 / 33
7	8.2	0.5 - 1.0	0.5	25-50		26c	1.025/33
8	8.15	0.5	1	50	8	26c	1.025/33
9	8.15	0.5	1	100		26c	1.025/33
10	8.15	0.5	1	100		26c	1.026/34

Dosing of 2ppm ammonia on day 1, 3, 6, 10.
I did a 15 % water change on day 9, hence the slight increase in salinity, but nitrates werent dented.

(Running filter floss plus bio balls chamber 1, sponge (for eventual QT), carbon and bio block chamber 2)

Thanks for any advice!

Cheers,
Graham

 

[Garf]

Hi all,

Sorry for another cycling question, there are quite a few threads and articles but im still not sure what to do in my current situation.

I have a waterbox 15G, I used Fiji Skeleton Rock (dead) living stone but I didnt cure (maybe mistake #1). My issue is that ammonia and nitrate seem to stay the same but nitrate is sky high >100.

I am using salifert tests. Lights are off, I am using fishless cycling with dr tims and dosing ammonia chorlide as per instructions. I was also recommended to dose Microbacter7 by lfs, so i do this daily (mistake #2?)

So my question is, is this dead rock die off? is this just normal cycle? Any advice on what i should proceed to do ?

Parameters :

Day	PH	NH3	NO2	Nitrate	KH / Alk	Temp	Salinity
1	8.15	0.15	0.1	2.5	8.3	26c	1.025 / 33
2	8.15	0.25	0.1	2.5		26c	1.025 / 33
3	8.2	0.5	0.025	2.5		26c	1.025 / 33
4	8.2	0.5-1.0	0.025	5		26c	1.025 / 33
5	8.2	0.5	0.1	10		26c	1.025 / 33
6	8.2	0.5	0.1	25		26c	1.025 / 33
7	8.2	0.5 - 1.0	0.5	25-50		26c	1.025/33
8	8.15	0.5	1	50	8	26c	1.025/33
9	8.15	0.5	1	100		26c	1.025/33
10	8.15	0.5	1	100		26c	1.026/34

Dosing of 2ppm ammonia on day 1, 3, 6, 10.
I did a 15 % water change on the 1st, hence the slight increase in salinity, but nitrates werent dented.

(Running filter floss plus bio balls chamber 1, sponge (for eventual QT), carbon and bio block chamber 2)

Thanks for any advice!

Cheers,
Graham

Well, you’ve been putting a lot of ammonia in. Don’t add anymore, looks like it’s ready to me. Do a nice big water change with high quality saltwater and you can start adding livestock.

 

[GazS]

Well, you’ve been putting a lot of ammonia in. Don’t add anymore, looks like it’s ready to me. Do a nice big water change with high quality saltwater and you can start adding livestock.

Thanks Garf, would you recommend 50% water change? more?

 

[Garf]

Thanks Garf, would you recommend 50% water change? more?

That should be plenty to give your livestock a good start.

 

[Danroo]

After adding livestock keep dosing prime until you have 0 nitrite and nitrates or you could lower the amount of ammonia. I tried with the fish in cycle method. Your ammonia will spike just keep using prime every 24 hours.

 

[GazS]

After adding livestock keep dosing prime until you have 0 nitrite and nitrates or you could lower the amount of ammonia. I tried with the fish in cycle method. Your ammonia will spike just keep using prime every 24 hours.

I haven't been using prime or anything similar as I've got an RO/DI system at home.

I'm hesitant to start dosing prime to solely remove the nitrate as I'm hoping water changes will be enough. Happy to hear contrary opinions on this though.

 

[Danroo]

I haven't been using prime or anything similar as I've got an RO/DI system at home.

I'm hesitant to start dosing prime to solely remove the nitrate as I'm hoping water changes will be enough. Happy to hear contrary opinions on this though.

The little bit of ammonia and nitrite are unhealthy for the livestock. You’ll see when you get your first fish they will be stressed until you have both 0 ammonia and nitrites. Prime is there to keep those three down while your tank complete it’s cycle and do water changes when your nitrates go above 25ppm.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Hi all,

Sorry for another cycling question, there are quite a few threads and articles but im still not sure what to do in my current situation.

I have a waterbox 15G, I used Fiji Skeleton Rock (dead) living stone but I didnt cure (maybe mistake #1). My issue is that ammonia and nitrate seem to stay the same but nitrate is sky high >100.

I am using salifert tests. Lights are off, I am using fishless cycling with dr tims and dosing ammonia chorlide as per instructions. I was also recommended to dose Microbacter7 by lfs, so i do this daily (mistake #2?)

So my question is, is this dead rock die off? is this just normal cycle? Any advice on what i should proceed to do ?

Parameters :

Day	PH	NH3	NO2	Nitrate	KH / Alk	Temp	Salinity
1	8.15	0.15	0.1	2.5	8.3	26c	1.025 / 33
2	8.15	0.25	0.1	2.5		26c	1.025 / 33
3	8.2	0.5	0.025	2.5		26c	1.025 / 33
4	8.2	0.5-1.0	0.025	5		26c	1.025 / 33
5	8.2	0.5	0.1	10		26c	1.025 / 33
6	8.2	0.5	0.1	25		26c	1.025 / 33
7	8.2	0.5 - 1.0	0.5	25-50		26c	1.025/33
8	8.15	0.5	1	50	8	26c	1.025/33
9	8.15	0.5	1	100		26c	1.025/33
10	8.15	0.5	1	100		26c	1.026/34

Dosing of 2ppm ammonia on day 1, 3, 6, 10.
I did a 15 % water change on day 9, hence the slight increase in salinity, but nitrates werent dented.

(Running filter floss plus bio balls chamber 1, sponge (for eventual QT), carbon and bio block chamber 2)

Thanks for any advice!

Cheers,
Graham

As others have said, stop dosing ammonia, you have already added enough for the cycle.

There is no die off from your rock, you only need to cure live rock. The rock you have is ready to be cycled.

You are getting a false NO3 reading because you have NO2 in the tank. Most hobby test kits convert NO3 to NO2, and then give you a reading of NO2, but tell you they are measuring NO3. So, if you already have NO2 in the tank, you will get a false NO3 reading. Wait to measure NO3 until you get a 0 ppm NO2 reading.

No need to do a water change yet.

 

[Aqua Man]

After adding livestock keep dosing prime until you have 0 nitrite and nitrates or you could lower the amount of ammonia. I tried with the fish in cycle method. Your ammonia will spike just keep using prime every 24 hours.

Um, no. If someone needs to dose prime than the tank was not cycled properly. Prime is for emergency.


nitrite don’t matter for saltwater

Well, you’ve been putting a lot of ammonia in. Don’t add anymore, looks like it’s ready to me. Do a nice big water change with high quality saltwater and you can start adding livestock.

This is good advice. Big water change, as much as you can. Will not harm the cycle

 

[brandon429]

Post pics of these rocks/ the tank here

lets see the uncured rocks ratio in the layout

 

[GazS]

Post pics of these rocks/ the tank here

lets see the uncured rocks ratio in the layout

Here you Go Brandon. Lights are on just for the pic.

 

[Poof No Eyebrows]

Tagged

 

[brandon429]

Was the rock wet or dry when you brought it home, almost done tracing out details

 

[GazS]

Was the rock wet or dry when you brought it home, almost done tracing out details

It was dry, very dry!

 

[brandon429]

All you have to do is wait to day 15, an arbitrary date we use in Dr Tims challenge cycles, change your water for new, and begin.

reason it will cycle: all the other Dr Tims cycles we have on file...thousands. Yours will follow suit

reason for not factoring current test levels:
if your bottle bac was dead both nitrite and trate would show zero and ammonia would never change, we don’t need exact compliance by non digital test kits, duration timeframe will be the determinant not the guess test, this is why our logged cycles keep working out fine every year

 

[Danroo]

Um, no. If someone needs to dose prime than the tank was not cycled properly. Prime is for emergency.


nitrite don’t matter for saltwater

This is good advice. Big water change, as much as you can. Will not harm the cycle

Everyone has different experiences I gave my advice based on what my tank experienced because it being setup recently. My ammonia 0.5 and nitrite 1 were affecting my pair of clownfish where my male was lethargic until both of them went 0. I had to does prime everyday to keep him active. Even though they were hardy, and I lost one different fish cause of 0.5 nitrite. ( kept on doing weekly water changes).

 

[Azedenkae]

Everyone has different experiences I gave my advice based on what my tank experienced because it being setup recently. My ammonia 0.5 and nitrite 1 were affecting my pair of clownfish where my male was lethargic until both of them went 0. I had to does prime everyday to keep him active. Even though they were hardy, and I lost one different fish cause of 0.5 nitrite. ( kept on doing weekly water changes).

If your tank is cycled you should not be registering ammonia. Or rather, you may only register very low levels.

If you dose Prime and they were still lethargic until both parameters went to 0 then that means Prime was not working for you, because if Prime was actually detoxifying ammonia and nitrite then why would both still harm your fish?

Also, just because both read higher than 0 does not mean both are affecting your fish, if they are at all. Nitrite is generally non-toxic to marine fish: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php until it reaches very, very high concentrations. Far higher than 1ppm.

I raise these points up because I think you are drawing very wrong conclusions from what you saw. It is far more likely that your fish were lethargic because well, newly purchased fish can be stressed out, and they recovered over time. After all, if ammonia and nitrite were both truly affecting your fish at such low concentrations then that would mean:
1. All of us who had marine fish when nitrite was above 0 are very, very lucky that we did not see any issues, especially given at times some people had fish even when nitrite was at 5ppm or more.
2. Prime does not work at all to detoxify ammonia and/or nitrite.

Both of which seems unlikely to me.

[EDIT]

One last thing, Prime does not detoxify nitrate.

 

[Danroo]

If your tank is cycled you should not be registering ammonia. Or rather, you may only register very low levels.

If you dose Prime and they were still lethargic until both parameters went to 0 then that means Prime was not working for you, because if Prime was actually detoxifying ammonia and nitrite then why would both still harm your fish?

Also, just because both read higher than 0 does not mean both are affecting your fish, if they are at all. Nitrite is generally non-toxic to marine fish: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php until it reaches very, very high concentrations. Far higher than 1ppm.

I raise these points up because I think you are drawing very wrong conclusions from what you saw. It is far more likely that your fish were lethargic because well, newly purchased fish can be stressed out, and they recovered over time. After all, if ammonia and nitrite were both truly affecting your fish at such low concentrations then that would mean:
1. All of us who had marine fish when nitrite was above 0 are very, very lucky that we did not see any issues, especially given at times some people had fish even when nitrite was at 5ppm or more.
2. Prime does not work at all to detoxify ammonia and/or nitrite.

Both of which seems unlikely to me.

[EDIT]

One last thing, Prime does not detoxify nitrate.

I came to this conclusion because of my tank being a nano one. I spelled the effects of ammonia wrong. My fish were only active when I was dosing prime until my tank cycled I have gone through 3 bottles of beneficial bacteria to cycle my tank at the end fritz turbo start did the job. I also did the same with just doing weekly water changes, but every time I did my male clownfish would just lay on the sand and not move much every time I avoided using prime. Clownfish were captive bred. My ammonia and nitrite never went up 1ppm. Oh and after 2 weeks with 0.5 nitrite my damsel dies with 25 nitrate. All of these fishes were bought through live aquaria. Even future fishes do there might be some shipping stress but seeing my male being active after dosing prime or the tank completely cycled I cannot explain.

 

[brandon429]

Danroo

none of the change in fish behavior is tied to adding prime, as they would be dead not lethargic were it not controlled. The first bottle cycled your tank, the other three were in response to mis testing. Your cycle too was done on or before day fifteen, they all are when theyre dosed.

only fully unassisted cycles take longer, they close out before day 60


what you observed in fish behavior is unrelated to your cycling. If they weren’t quarantined when they were input a whole new round of lethargy is coming

*that’s not said to distract from the cycle close challenge date, legit we need to aim 100% of concern about cycles completing into fish disease management, that’s what kills them it’s not faulty cycles. Not any cycle on this whole site is stalled or faulty, it’s just varying degrees of mis testing and not factoring TAN conversions causing the disarray.

any one of the three bottle bac used are found in skip cycle threads where they control ammonia immediately (tested on seneye)

the key is what tester are we basing truth on

 

[Danroo]

Danroo

none of the change in fish behavior is tied to adding prime, as they would be dead not lethargic were it not controlled. The first bottle cycled your tank, the other three were in response to mis testing. Your cycle too was done on or before day fifteen, they all are when theyre dosed.

only fully unassisted cycles take longer, they close out before day 60


what you observed in fish behavior is unrelated to your cycling. If they weren’t quarantined when they were input a whole new round of lethargy is coming

I went to two different lfs closes to me one was saltwater dominated and the other one was freshwater to test my water so I can add up clean up crew. Both of them said nitrites are a bit high being 1ppm and they might not survive. Recommended me not to buy until both of them were 0 I asked em about my one fish being lethargic. Both told me to does prime to keep the nitrites and ammonia down. I guess I had the most weirdest starting a tank experience.