New to dosing nitrate and phosphate. Advice welcome!

[Scythanith]

Hello RHF and all,

My system has a problem, it's too clean. I have a light fish load in a 270g mixed reef, a good skimmer, and use TM 3-part balling, additives & salt. I used to run ~2 cups GFO but took that offline ~2 months ago. I feed PE Mysis, LRS reef and pellets like there is no tomorrow and only do water changes (~20%) once a month.

Problem is, I can't keep my NO3 and P04 up. I commonly can only get ~ <2ppm NO3 on the tests (salifert & red sea pro) and usually undetectable to 0.01ppm PO4 (red sea pro and Hanna ULP). I'd like to get into the 5ppm NO3 and .05ppm (?) PO4 ranges. I have noticed slow coral growth and lighter colors indicative of a ULNS, but I want to boost the growth and won't mind some deeper colour in the SPS.

I purchased these products from here:

FD12 PlantGuy's Potassium Nitrate KNO3 (500g)

FD19 PlantGuy's Mono Potassium Phosphate -KH2PO4 500g)

Now I have been scanning through the threads and the general consensus I see for a starting dose is ~2 tablespoons per 500ml of water. I'm a little rusty on my stoich, but could someone help me figure out exactly how much of that solution I'd have to add to 270g of water colume to raise it say 1ppm for the NO3 and .01ppm for the PO4? I took university chemistry but just want to make sure I am doing it correctly! And yes I know, slow is better than fast, so if raising it by that much in a single dose seems like too much just say so!

I will be using a GHL Doser 2 so i can regulate the amounts fairly well and do them on a consistent basis. Also if it has any bearing, I will be switching to aquaforest products in a couple months due to lack of availability of the TM products locally. Is there any point me using a probiotic system if I have no NO3/PO4 problems?

Thank you for all the help!
Scott

 

[TbyZ]

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm

 

[Bayinaung]

Hello RHF and all,

My system has a problem, it's too clean. I have a light fish load in a 270g mixed reef Scott

Scott, the BEST solution is right there, nothing fancy. Add more fish! Feed more! You'll get more N and P that way. I'd dose only after you're maxed out on bioload and you can't keep N and P up. That's where I am at.

 

[swnoob]

Scott, the BEST solution is right there, nothing fancy. Add more fish! Feed more! You'll get more N and P that way. I'd dose only after you're maxed out on bioload and you can't keep N and P up. That's where I am at.

I agree. I had the same issue so i added 3 fish. Before the addition i found myself constantly chasing nutrients. One less thing to dose is always a good thing.

 

[TbyZ]

I agree. I had the same issue so i added 3 fish. Before the addition i found myself constantly chasing nutrients. One less thing to dose is always a good thing.

I believe that hobbiests who dose like to consider it a very accurate way of maintaining a specific level of nutrient. No spikes & troughs.

Some may consider it somewhat sophisticated.

Some just like to play around with their tank alot & this is another knob to turn & switch to flick.

Having said that, if keeping alkalinity at above natural levels, combined with high turbulence, undetectable levels of NO3 is a base point where dosing allows a very specific amount of nutrient to be added to find your tanks sweetspot.

 

[swnoob]

I believe that hobbiests who dose like to consider it a very accurate way of maintaining a specific level of nutrient. No spikes & troughs.

Some may consider it somewhat sophisticated.

Some just like to play around with their tank alot & this is another knob to turn & switch to flick.

Having said that, if keeping alkalinity at above natural levels, combined with high turbulence, undetectable levels of NO3 is a base point where dosing allows a very specific amount of nutrient to be added to find your tanks sweetspot.

You're right. Having been there and done that i now try and keep my tank as simple as possible. I found the less i tinkered with my tank the more it thrived.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If the calculator linked above doesn't answer your dosing questions, just let us know.

Also, don't take it from that calculator that potassium salts are best. For a reef tank, I'd use sodium salts if they are available to you, but potassium can be OK.

 

[Scythanith]

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm

Thank you very much!

Scott, the BEST solution is right there, nothing fancy. Add more fish! Feed more! You'll get more N and P that way. I'd dose only after you're maxed out on bioload and you can't keep N and P up. That's where I am at.

I am very picky about the fish in my system and unfortunately the ones I want in it aren't available often or cost a lot of cash. I've always wanted to wait for the right ones and not just put fish in to fill it up. Make sense?

 

[Scythanith]

I believe that hobbiests who dose like to consider it a very accurate way of maintaining a specific level of nutrient. No spikes & troughs.

Some may consider it somewhat sophisticated.

Some just like to play around with their tank alot & this is another knob to turn & switch to flick.

Having said that, if keeping alkalinity at above natural levels, combined with high turbulence, undetectable levels of NO3 is a base point where dosing allows a very specific amount of nutrient to be added to find your tanks sweetspot.

I want to find that sweet spot. It's not that I necessarily enjoy tinkering, as I am away from home often and have to get my wife to do the tinkering for me (God bless her heart ). But the stability of having things on doser in fact makes the hobby easier for me to enjoy.

You're right. Having been there and done that i now try and keep my tank as simple as possible. I found the less i tinkered with my tank the more it thrived.

I agree! I removed biopellets, an ozone reactor and GFO to simplify things

 

[Scythanith]

If the calculator linked above doesn't answer your dosing questions, just let us know.

Also, don't take it from that calculator that potassium salts are best. For a reef tank, I'd use sodium salts if they are available to you, but potassium can be OK.

Hello Randy, the calculator seems pretty straight forward. You trust its calculations I take it? I don't have sodium salts readily available to me in Canada. And shipping them across the border can be tricky due to their chemical nature. What potential issues do I have using the K salts? I use triton testing and last one I ran was perfect for K. I assume I will have issues with an increasing concentration of K over time. Can I mitigate that with water changes?

I appreciate everyones input!

 

[Scythanith]

Randy,

I am checking out other NaNO3 sources and if I can get a lab supplier to sell to me how pure do I need to buy? 99.9%, 99%, 98% lol?

https://www.fishersci.ca/ca/en/catalog/search/products?keyword=NaNO3&nav=

 

[Bayinaung]

Thank you very much!



I am very picky about the fish in my system and unfortunately the ones I want in it aren't available often or cost a lot of cash. I've always wanted to wait for the right ones and not just put fish in to fill it up. Make sense?

I'm the same. But you have a HUGE tank compared to the nano I have. There are the $$$ fishes and there are 2nd level ones. So that's where I went. A gorgeous school of anthias would quickly add colour and bioload to your system without stressing out any other fish. (yup noted you're in sask. anyone you can order via mail from? Some of the LFS in Toronto can ship so PM for their info). you didn't mention how many fishes you have. I am at the ratio of about 5 gallons per inch of fish which is pretty crowded. What would be your ratio of water volume to fish?

 

[Scythanith]

But the anthias I want are Ventralis My LFS Bayside Corals is truly one of the best in the country, he can get me anything if I want to pay for it lol!

I have:

When I just wanted to get the tank going:
Marine Betta
Magnificent Foxface
Yellow tang
Royal Gramma
Blue star wrasse (F)

When I started getting picky:

Helfriches firefish
Golden Rhomboid wrasse (M)

• Had 3 but the two females eventually one after the other went male and subsequently killed the previous male.

Candy Basslet
Candy stripe hogfish (B. opercularis)

• Took out due to aggression.

Ventralis Anthias

• Had 3 but they got a mean fungus and died.

So all in all maybe ~27" of fish in a 270. 1" per 10 g.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hello Randy, the calculator seems pretty straight forward. You trust its calculations I take it? I don't have sodium salts readily available to me in Canada. And shipping them across the border can be tricky due to their chemical nature. What potential issues do I have using the K salts? I use triton testing and last one I ran was perfect for K. I assume I will have issues with an increasing concentration of K over time. Can I mitigate that with water changes?

I appreciate everyones input!

I haven't checked it, but its hard to mess up such a simple calculator.

If potassium is OK now, you have some room to use it for a while. Yes, water changes will mitigate any rise and might make in meaningless.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy,

I am checking out other NaNO3 sources and if I can get a lab supplier to sell to me how pure do I need to buy? 99.9%, 99%, 98% lol?

https://www.fishersci.ca/ca/en/catalog/search/products?keyword=NaNO3&nav=

All of them on that page are good.

 

[Bayinaung]

But the anthias I want are Ventralis My LFS Bayside Corals is truly one of the best in the country, he can get me anything if I want to pay for it lol!

I have:

When I just wanted to get the tank going:
Marine Betta
Magnificent Foxface
Yellow tang
Royal Gramma
Blue star wrasse (F)

When I started getting picky:

Helfriches firefish
Golden Rhomboid wrasse (M)

• Had 3 but the two females eventually one after the other went male and subsequently killed the previous male.

Candy Basslet
Candy stripe hogfish (B. opercularis)

• Took out due to aggression.

Ventralis Anthias

• Had 3 but they got a mean fungus and died.

So all in all maybe ~27" of fish in a 270. 1" per 10 g.

tell me if I counted wrong - you have 8 fishes in total currently in the 270? And what's the volume of your sump? Ventralis are beautiful and fragile. GL with dosing.

 

[Scythanith]

They hold around 40g running. I usually just try and balance the rock in the tank with the water in the sumps and say 270g total volume Maybe it's more.

Yep, 8 fish. But I feed probably 2 unrinsed cubes and a couple good pinches of pellets every day.

 

[Scythanith]

So I am all set up and made a 3500ml container of each. The calculator is weirding me out. According to the calculator I only need to dose 1ml for .01ppm (50g in a 3500ml solution). So I am dosing 10ml of nitrates 3 x week and 2ml of phosphates 3 x week. That should get me ~3ppm of nitrates and .06ppm of phosphates per week. But it's such a small amount of actual fluid coming out of the doser... the Doser 2 says one will last me 800+ days and the other 1400 days haahaa!. I know I could have made it less concentrated but I didn't think a .o1ppm per 1ml solution was too concentrated.

Does this all sound ok to everyone so far?

 

[Bayinaung]

I would do a bit more research on how much to dose in a single day. Did you see any recommendations by Randy on the amount to dose per day? There is one tank on another forum with 300L or 79 gallons in total water volume who doses 10ppm Nitrates and 1ppm phosphates PER DAY (post is here: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24809817&postcount=244). Note - his only biological filtration medium is 10 liters of siporax (no live rock, no sand) so you do need an efficient well matured biological filter.

I think what he's dosing would be too much to start off. I started with a quarter of what he was doing and found it a bit much so go 1/10th of those amounts on a per day basis to start would be my suggestion. I did find that my early doses were immediately sucked up by the tank so nothing showed. but it seems once the tank became carbon limited again I began to get nitrates and phosphates.

But I'd love to hear what amount Randy would recommend for daily or weekly dosing?

 

[Scythanith]

I'm more than willing to adjust as the collective sees fit I have about 150lbs live rock and a 1-2" sand bed that I am wanting to remove. I am debating adding siporax to the system.

I have not seen any precise recommendations on dosing aside from on the planted tank calculator "How to Use" and "What PPM values do I need". That's sort of what I was following except wanting 5ppm and .05ppm values.