New Trident question

[Waters]

I finally have a Trident and set it up. Everything appears to be working correctly except my ALK numbers are high (actual ALK is 8.4ish while Trident reads 9.5). Are the higher numbers to be expected during the first week of use or should the numbers be accurate right out of the box? I did not calibrate yet due to instructions saying to wait a week first....which is to give it time to break in I assume?

 

[User1]

I finally have a Trident and set it up. Everything appears to be working correctly except my ALK numbers are high (actual ALK is 8.4ish while Trident reads 9.5). Are the higher numbers to be expected during the first week of use or should the numbers be accurate right out of the box? I did not calibrate yet due to instructions saying to wait a week first....which is to give it time to break in I assume?

First - welcome to the club.
Second - correct, do not calibrate. Follow the instructions. This allows it to run through its paces, your placement, etc. I didn't calibrate for 7 or 8 days.

With that out of the way how did you compare results? Manually I know but what test kit and was the test run about the same time? For example I use the Hanna Alk kit and I will grab a sample of water before the scheduled test at 12:00 (Noon). So around 11:50 or so I'll grab some water and run the test. Then compare to the Tridents results. Each time the Trident and Hanna are close within their respected area of tolerance.

I also send in about 2 ATI ICP tests a year. Again I will grab the water a few minutes before the Tridents test to package up and send off. Those results are again similar to what the trident is reporting. I do not manually test Ca or Mag because I'm not a fan of those tests manually but the ATI results and Tridents are again similar.

 

[Mr4000]

I just got off the phone with neptune with the exact same problem with the alk reading from 1 to 1.3 dkh higher than both of my hanna checkers say. I got mine on Oct 31 and it has since gotten worse. It was almost spot on when it was new. Now according to Neptune that this is normal to be off that far and to believe the reading on the trident not the hanna checkers and i used 2 different checkers. I think that is BS. I just ordered a new hanna checker and a salfert test for alk to just make sure. I have read online that this has been a problem with the alk readings and Neptune says its ok, that's not right. If anyone else is having this issue and was able to correct it please let me know what you did.

 

[User1]

I just got off the phone with neptune with the exact same problem with the alk reading from 1 to 1.3 dkh higher than both of my hanna checkers say. I got mine on Oct 31 and it has since gotten worse. It was almost spot on when it was new. Now according to Neptune that this is normal to be off that far and to believe the reading on the trident not the hanna checkers and i used 2 different checkers. I think that is crap. I just ordered a new hanna checker and a salfert test for alk to just make sure. I have read online that this has been a problem with the alk readings and Neptune says its ok, that's not right. If anyone else is having this issue and was able to correct it please let me know what you did.

Who was the support rep you spoke to? Alk is + / - .05 dkh if you look at their docs. Only time I've seen my numbers drift if if I let the reagents get too low by ignoring or delaying change. Change the reagent and everything is back to normal.

 

[Mr4000]

Jon Mosbacher was the rep i talked to. My trident reads 9 dkh and both my hanna checkers read 7.8 and 7.9. That's too big a difference for me and i just changed all the reagents last week and calibrated it which it calibrated to exactly what was on the calibration bottle. A few weeks ago i ordered all new reagents and calibrated then also with the same results on the calibration bottle. The rep was the one who told me to trust the reading on the trident. I've been reefing for 30 years and i know when something isn't right and i'm going to trust both my hanna checkers. I would just like to know how to fine tune this to get a more closer reading to the hanna checkers. I love the trident just trying to figure the alk readings out.

 

[User1]

Jon Mosbacher was the rep i talked to. My trident reads 9 dkh and both my hanna checkers read 7.8 and 7.9. That's too big a difference for me and i just changed all the reagents last week and calibrated it which it calibrated to exactly what was on the calibration bottle. A few weeks ago i ordered all new reagents and calibrated then also with the same results on the calibration bottle. The rep was the one who told me to trust the reading on the trident. I've been reefing for 30 years and i know when something isn't right and i'm going to trust both my hanna checkers. I would just like to know how to fine tune this to get a more closer reading to the hanna checkers. I love the trident just trying to figure the alk readings out.

Jon is who I always talk to - great guy. In any case one thing you could try next time you calibrate is to test the Hanna checker with it. I've not done this so not sure how you could but I've read others on this site and others that use the Trident calibration fluid with their manual tests to compare. I think I also read where someone saved it and used Neptune's cal fluid a month or so later and it was still ok.

I would tend to agree if the Trident is matching the calibration fluid time and time again yet different than the Hanna I'd probably go with the Trident. As I mentioned earlier mine even matches ATI's ICP results.

Not saying you are wrong by any means. Interesting though.

 

[ddrueckh]

Have you used the Trident calibration solution in the Hanna checker to see what you get? Might shed some light on what is going on...

 

[Mr4000]

I actually did try the calibration fluid in my hanna checker it read 7.6 and the bottle said 8.1. I do have the hanna reference bottles and they are spot on. That's why i ordered another hanna checker since both of mine are over 2 years old and a salfert test kit just to see if the checkers are wrong. I have mostly sps and now i'm starting to second guess things and thats not a good thing to do, so i won't make any changes until i have the new test kits to see what they say.

 

[ddrueckh]

If your tank is doing great...and the Trident consistently reads 9.5...then I would maintain the level at 9.5 based on the Trident reading and not worry about it. Its more about stability than the exact value. If your tank is having issues....maybe the Hanna checker has been wrong and I would slowly reduce Alk to see if it helps.

 

[Realposition]

My Hanna checker always reads .5 dkh low. I made a diy alk standard and it read .5dkh low, I bought the fauna marine standard solution and it read it .5dkh low and I used the trident alk calibration standard in it and it read .5dkh low. I have the calibration curvettes from hanna and they read correctly but that is only going to tell you if the checker is reading the color correctly, not if the reagents you are using are not showing alk correctly.

 

[Mr4000]

The tank is doing great my concern is if something goes south with the alk and its at 7.8 i would rather have it at 9 and possibly have a better chance of the tank not crashing. And yes your right i'm trying to keep it stable as can be and actually the trident has done a great job of helping me do that!

 

[Waters]

First - welcome to the club.
Second - correct, do not calibrate. Follow the instructions. This allows it to run through its paces, your placement, etc. I didn't calibrate for 7 or 8 days.

With that out of the way how did you compare results? Manually I know but what test kit and was the test run about the same time? For example I use the Hanna Alk kit and I will grab a sample of water before the scheduled test at 12:00 (Noon). So around 11:50 or so I'll grab some water and run the test. Then compare to the Tridents results. Each time the Trident and Hanna are close within their respected area of tolerance.

I also send in about 2 ATI ICP tests a year. Again I will grab the water a few minutes before the Tridents test to package up and send off. Those results are again similar to what the trident is reporting. I do not manually test Ca or Mag because I'm not a fan of those tests manually but the ATI results and Tridents are again similar.

Thanks for the response. I tested manually with both a Hanna Checker (tested 8.9) and Red Sea (8.4). The Trident is testing at 9.4 and 9.5 in back to back tests. All tests were done at the exact time....about 11:30 today. I will let it go for a week or so and then calibrate if needed. If there is one thing I dislike about this hobby it is all of the unknowns surrounding water test results lol. 5 different tests will give you 5 different answers. Ca and Mg aren't that big of a deal but ALK is a little more important when it comes to having a somewhat accurate answer.

 

[Waters]

My Hanna checker always reads .5 dkh low. I made a diy alk standard and it read .5dkh low, I bought the fauna marine standard solution and it read it .5dkh low and I used the trident alk calibration standard in it and it read .5dkh low. I have the calibration curvettes from hanna and they read correctly but that is only going to tell you if the checker is reading the color correctly, not if the reagents you are using are not showing alk correctly.

I am starting to question the accuracy of the Hanna checkers.....mine reads .5 high compared to both Salifert and Red Sea.

 

[Crabby48]

I am starting to question the accuracy of the Hanna checkers.....mine reads .5 high compared to both Salifert and Red Sea.

Isn’t .5 the accuracy of the Hanna

 

[TheHarold]

The trident is much more accurate, once calibrated.

You can try checking the VERIFIED apex calibration solution using the Hanna checker--- that will show you how off the Hanna checker is.

Standards are important.

 

[Mr4000]

I'm thinking the same way are the hanna checkers accurate or not, that's why i'm getting a new one to compare to my older ones and a salifert kit just to see what it reads.I can deal with .5 dkh difference but not 1 or more especially on an sps tank that your trying to keep as stable as possible.

 

[Waters]

Isn’t .5 the accuracy of the Hanna

If I remember correctly it is supposed to be +/- .3

 

[User1]

The trident is much more accurate, once calibrated.

You can try checking the VERIFIED apex calibration solution using the Hanna checker--- that will show you how off the Hanna checker is.

Standards are important.

How do you do that out of curiosity? Fill the Hanna vial with the calibration fluid instead of tank water? Then just use directions as normal?

 

[TheHarold]

How do you do that out of curiosity? Fill the Hanna vial with the calibration fluid instead of tank water? Then just use directions as normal?

Exactly

 

[User1]

Exactly

Thanks - wanted to try this. Appreciate the info :)