Newbie help for Dino’s

[Scubanurse]

Hello from big D! I’ve been in the hobby a tad under a year. Recently upgraded my tank from 75 gal to Red Sea 750. I have found online interaction so intimidating as a female reefer, so many of the reefers are so good at tech, I’m not so much. I’m a nurse and love science though. Love learning too! It looks like I have my journey cut out for me. I just discovered this new “ugly stage” that I thought was diatoms is in fact Dinoflagellates. I posted on Mack’s Dino page to ID. I’ve been told it’s Prorocentrum and add silicates. Can you guys chime in?
Running A bag of carbon in the cage under my ReefMat and reduced light to 5 hours, dosed 1 har of Tigger pods before I knew it was Dino’s, added Micobactor 7 last night.
I’ve found 2 dead snails so far. Not many corals in the tank but the frogspawn, mushrooms, zoas are all tolerating. Fish seem normal.

Parameters:
Phos. 0.05
Nit 25 (started bio pellets a month ago at half dose) not sure if I should add, stop altogether or maintain
Ph 8.0-8.1 (dropping)
Alk 7.15
Cal 3.4
Mg 1200
Sal. 1.025
Temp 77.4
Running a 40W Aqua UV through the sump @650 (this was plumbed for me by my LFS) I am pondering trying to figure out in display and re routing the soft tubing but that task seems daunting. I’m not opposed to hiring help though. But it seems pointless if these are solely sand dwellers.

See my snails all “running for the hills? Lol

 

[Ocean_Queenie]

Hello & Welcome, happy you’re here!

 

[Seven Year Nap]

Hi and Welcome,

I'm relatively new as well, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

Adding bacteria, copepods, and UV seem like the right things to do. You might just need more time for the bacteria and copepods to build a population and start eating/competing with the dinos.

Since you have UV, you could also try a short blackout if you felt comfortable doing so. I have read this can help get the dinos into the water column, but have not seen it firsthand.

 

[TattooedReef27]

Do u have a cleanup crew any crabs ?and how is your flow need to get them moving looks like it is covering ur sand pretty good

 

[1112-425XL]

 

[Just John]

sorry about your dino issue. Most of us have had to deal with this at some point. Here is a link to a large thread about the issue and a good paper by @taricha is attached. Good luck and welcome!

Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

I don't know what percentage of folks had luck battling dinos with any of the methods in the old Dino thread but it's obviously a very low percentage, so I'd like refresh folks on the natural alternatives and lay out three areas of info: some of the factors that contribute to a dino outbreak...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[CO2TLEY]

 

[dank.reefer]

Hello from big D! I’ve been in the hobby a tad under a year. Recently upgraded my tank from 75 gal to Red Sea 750. I have found online interaction so intimidating as a female reefer, so many of the reefers are so good at tech, I’m not so much. I’m a nurse and love science though. Love learning too! It looks like I have my journey cut out for me. I just discovered this new “ugly stage” that I thought was diatoms is in fact Dinoflagellates. I posted on Mack’s Dino page to ID. I’ve been told it’s Prorocentrum and add silicates. Can you guys chime in?
Running A bag of carbon in the cage under my ReefMat and reduced light to 5 hours, dosed 1 har of Tigger pods before I knew it was Dino’s, added Micobactor 7 last night.
I’ve found 2 dead snails so far. Not many corals in the tank but the frogspawn, mushrooms, zoas are all tolerating. Fish seem normal.

Parameters:
Phos. 0.05
Nit 25 (started bio pellets a month ago at half dose) not sure if I should add, stop altogether or maintain
Ph 8.0-8.1 (dropping)
Alk 7.15
Cal 3.4
Mg 1200
Sal. 1.025
Temp 77.4
Running a 40W Aqua UV through the sump @650 (this was plumbed for me by my LFS) I am pondering trying to figure out in display and re routing the soft tubing but that task seems daunting. I’m not opposed to hiring help though. But it seems pointless if these are solely sand dwellers.

See my snails all “running for the hills? Lol

The plan of attack greatly depends on the strain of dino you are dealing with. The main issue with dinos being that there is generally a lack of biodiversity in the tank which makes it easy for them to proliferate.

Mack's reef is a good resource and helped me through this tough stage of tank cycling. I followed their protocal for beating the procentrum and managed to beat it in around 2 months. The UV won't do much for procentrum because it doesn't free swim in the water column it just crawls into the sandbed or deeper into the rocks at night. Even if you were going after a free swimming form of dinoflangeate you would need to plumb the UV directly into the main tank.

My own battle with procentrum was won by reducing my lights on to 6 hours a day, dosing microbacter7, and microbacter clean, along with silicates, neonitro and neophos to induce a diatome bloom. Then I vacuumed the sandbed into a 5 micron sock in the sump 2 times a week. After 2 months of hitting it hard from all angles there was no more Dinos. I am still waiting for the rest of the silicates to leach out and let the diatomes die off. Luckily I had another reefer direct me to Macks reef before I spent a large sum of money on a UV sterilizer as I don't think it would have helped my case. No UV was used to beat the dinos in my tank.

 

[Scubanurse]

Hi and Welcome,

I'm relatively new as well, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

Adding bacteria, copepods, and UV seem like the right things to do. You might just need more time for the bacteria and copepods to build a population and start eating/competing with the dinos.

Since you have UV, you could also try a short blackout if you felt comfortable doing so. I have read this can help get the dinos into the water column, but have not seen it firsthand.

Thank you for your response. I think I will plan on the 3 day blackout. I just looked up Dr Tim’s method. I DO trust his expertise. I recently purchased a small batch of CUC thinking this was Diatoms. Hoping they all don’t die.

 

[shakacuz]

welcome aboard the r2r board! hello from PA!

copepods, phytoplankton, bottled bacteria (MB7, Dr. Tims, PNS Pro Bio/Subtrate Sauce, Prodibio) are great options

 

[Scubanurse]

The plan of attack greatly depends on the strain of dino you are dealing with. The main issue with dinos being that there is generally a lack of biodiversity in the tank which makes it easy for them to proliferate.

Mack's reef is a good resource and helped me through this tough stage of tank cycling. I followed their protocal for beatung the procentrum and manages to beat it in around 2 months. The UV won't do much for procentrum because it doesn't free swim in the water column it just crawls into the sandbed or deeper into the rocks at night. Even if you were going after a free swimming form of dinoflangeate you would need to plumb the UV directly into the main tank.

My own battle with procentrum was won by reducing my lights on to 6 hours a day, dosing microbacter7, and microbacter clean, along with silicates, neonitro and neophos to induce a diatome bloom. Then I vacuumed the sandbed into a 5 micron sock in the sump 2 times a week. After 2 months of hitting it hard from all angles there was no more Dinos. I am still waiting for the rest of the silicates to leach out let the diatomes die off. Luckily I had another reefer direct me to Macks reef before I spent a large sum of money on a UV sterilizer as I don't think it would have helped my case. No UV was used to beat the dinos in my tank.

Thank you for your kind post. I have a post on Mack’s currently and 1 person has suggested this is protocentrum. What silicates did you use? Did you leave your skimmer on? ReefMat? Any total black out?

 

[musel101]

Welcome to the reef

 

[dank.reefer]

Thank you for your kind post. I have a post on Mack’s currently and 1 person has suggested this is protocentrum. What silicates did you use? Did you leave your skimmer on? ReefMat? Any total black out?

I ran my skimmer the whole time to keep the water oxygenated and I removed my filter socks(or rollermat) other than when vacuuming. The roller mat will only serve to remove the partucles of food and detritus that are needed in order to keep your phospates up to help fuel the growth of bacteria that are needed to outcompete the dinos. Running the skimmer to produce a wetter skimate is also helpful in removing any of the dying dinos from the water column.

I did not do a blackout as this can actually cause the dinos to encyst and go dormant only to cause further issues. If your nutients are to drop out in the future the encysted dormant dinos can come back. The goal is to keep the dinos active were you can fight them until they are gone.

Sodium Silicate / 4 Fluid Ounce Bottle / 99.9% Pure Reagent Grade / 41% Solution https://a.co/d/0rd6y3W

This is the Silicate that I dosed. Don't worry about buying this in a larger quantity this was enough to last a very long time as you will only need to dose a few ml a day.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello from big D! I’ve been in the hobby a tad under a year. Recently upgraded my tank from 75 gal to Red Sea 750. I have found online interaction so intimidating as a female reefer, so many of the reefers are so good at tech, I’m not so much. I’m a nurse and love science though. Love learning too! It looks like I have my journey cut out for me. I just discovered this new “ugly stage” that I thought was diatoms is in fact Dinoflagellates. I posted on Mack’s Dino page to ID. I’ve been told it’s Prorocentrum and add silicates. Can you guys chime in?
Running A bag of carbon in the cage under my ReefMat and reduced light to 5 hours, dosed 1 har of Tigger pods before I knew it was Dino’s, added Micobactor 7 last night.
I’ve found 2 dead snails so far. Not many corals in the tank but the frogspawn, mushrooms, zoas are all tolerating. Fish seem normal.

Parameters:
Phos. 0.05
Nit 25 (started bio pellets a month ago at half dose) not sure if I should add, stop altogether or maintain
Ph 8.0-8.1 (dropping)
Alk 7.15
Cal 3.4
Mg 1200
Sal. 1.025
Temp 77.4
Running a 40W Aqua UV through the sump @650 (this was plumbed for me by my LFS) I am pondering trying to figure out in display and re routing the soft tubing but that task seems daunting. I’m not opposed to hiring help though. But it seems pointless if these are solely sand dwellers.

See my snails all “running for the hills? Lol

Looks to be ostreo and start with a light siphoning and turn the lights off, at least whites
What is your nitrate and phosphate level?

 

[dank.reefer]

Thank you for your response. I think I will plan on the 3 day blackout. I just looked up Dr Tim’s method. I DO trust his expertise. I recently purchased a small batch of CUC thinking this was Diatoms. Hoping they all don’t die.

I did not do the black out because I was battling procentrum. Procentrum doesn't enter the water column in the darkness it just goes into the sandbed or rocks and hides. This is also why it is hard to beat Procentum with UV sterilizers. If Procentrum stays in the sand/rock work long enough it will just encyst into a dormant state and wait for the conditions to be right for it to come back and rear its ugly head again. Procentrum can even survive encysted for several weeks on dry rocks and substrates until the right conditions come back.

I did quite a bit of reading on the dinos back when I was battling them. The best advice I recieved came from Macks reef. I you read their PDF thoroughly, they have a very clear explanation of why dinos grow, what causes them to proliferate and how to erradicate them. While many folks claim to have beat dino in a couple of days or a week none of them were able to provide any scientific evidence to back up their claims. This led me to conclude that most of their reports are just anecdotal and circumstantial with no actual scientific proof. The Macks reef approach was the only one that I found that layed out a plan of action with true cause and effect with more than anecdotal results.

There truley isn't a silver bullet for beating dinos and all cases are different. This wasn't what I wanted to hear when I was battling dinos either but it was the conclusion I came to in the end.

 

[Scubanurse]

I did not do the black out because I was battling procentrum. Procentrum doesn't enter the water column in the darkness it just goes into the sandbed or rocks and hides. This is also why it is hard to beat Procentum with UV sterilizers. If Procentrum stays in the sand/rock work long enough it will just encyst into a dormant state and wait for the conditions to be right for it to come back and rear its ugly head again. Procentrum can even survive encysted for several weeks on dry rocks and substrates until the right conditions come back.

I did quite a bit of reading on the dinos back when I was battling them. The best advice I recieved came from Macks reef. I you read their PDF thoroughly, they have a very clear explanation of why dinos grow, what causes them to proliferate and how to erradicate them. While many folks claim to have beat dino in a couple of days or a week none of them were able to provide any scientific evidence to back up their claims. This led me to conclude that most of their reports are just anecdotal and circumstantial with no actual scientific proof. The Macks reef approach was the only one that I found that layed out a plan of action with true cause and effect with more than anecdotal results.

There truley isn't a silver bullet for beating dinos and all cases are different. This wasn't what I wanted to hear when I was battling dinos either but it was the conclusion I came to in the end.

Thank you once more. I’ve been reading on Mack’s. There’s sooooo much to learn and so many different opinions.

Looks to be ostreo and start with a light siphoning and turn the lights off, at least whites
What is your nitrate and phosphate level?

nitrates 25 phosphate 0.5

 

[Scubanurse]

I ran my skimmer the whole time to keep the water oxygenated and I removed my filter socks(or rollermat) other than when vacuuming. The roller mat will only serve to remove the partucles of food and detritus that are needed in order to keep your phospates up to help fuel the growth of bacteria that are needed to outcompete the dinos. Running the skimmer to produce a wetter skimate is also helpful in removing any of the dying dinos from the water column.

I did not do a blackout as this can actually cause the dinos to encyst and go dormant only to cause further issues. If your nutients are to drop out in the future the encysted dormant dinos can come back. The goal is to keep the dinos active were you can fight them until they are gone.

Sodium Silicate / 4 Fluid Ounce Bottle / 99.9% Pure Reagent Grade / 41% Solution https://a.co/d/0rd6y3W

This is the Silicate that I dosed. Don't worry about buying this in a larger quantity this was enough to last a very long time as you will only need to dose a few ml a day.

Bought the silicate. Thank you! Wish me luck

 

[Brisk]

Welcome!

 

[Reef Devils]

Hello from big D! I’ve been in the hobby a tad under a year. Recently upgraded my tank from 75 gal to Red Sea 750. I have found online interaction so intimidating as a female reefer, so many of the reefers are so good at tech, I’m not so much. I’m a nurse and love science though. Love learning too! It looks like I have my journey cut out for me. I just discovered this new “ugly stage” that I thought was diatoms is in fact Dinoflagellates. I posted on Mack’s Dino page to ID. I’ve been told it’s Prorocentrum and add silicates. Can you guys chime in?
Running A bag of carbon in the cage under my ReefMat and reduced light to 5 hours, dosed 1 har of Tigger pods before I knew it was Dino’s, added Micobactor 7 last night.
I’ve found 2 dead snails so far. Not many corals in the tank but the frogspawn, mushrooms, zoas are all tolerating. Fish seem normal.

Parameters:
Phos. 0.05
Nit 25 (started bio pellets a month ago at half dose) not sure if I should add, stop altogether or maintain
Ph 8.0-8.1 (dropping)
Alk 7.15
Cal 3.4
Mg 1200
Sal. 1.025
Temp 77.4
Running a 40W Aqua UV through the sump @650 (this was plumbed for me by my LFS) I am pondering trying to figure out in display and re routing the soft tubing but that task seems daunting. I’m not opposed to hiring help though. But it seems pointless if these are solely sand dwellers.

See my snails all “running for the hills? Lol

Welcome!

 

[vetteguy53081]