Newbie Needs Help adjusting the Gate Valve on the Herbie Method

[TacticalBacon]

Hello,
I am new again to Saltwater. I have a 43g Cube with an overflow box plumed to the back. I have what I think is the Herbie Method, I have primary and emergency drain. Going with a Fish and Coral setup, something simple till I get dialed in.

I have both drains plumbed separately. one PVC into a hard fitting on the Sump and the other is a hose that is in the Sump as well.

How do you get it to drain with the Trickle method?

I have twisted that valve a hundred times and I get air noises I can't get it to siphon and keep the water level right. I have no leaks or any gaps or spaces.

When I turn off the Main Drain and it is going into the Emergency, it siphons great, swirls and very little noise.

When I turn the volume in the Main Drain up, it always goes to low in the Overflow box and the water crashes into the overflow and is noise, it gulps air in it and is noisy as hell. I either get it to be too low or too full and when it is too low, I can't get it to siphon and when it is too full it goes to the emergency.

Is there a trick to getting it just right?

Also, is there a recommended height for the Main drain compared to the Emergency? The difference on mine is a lot. I would say about 80% difference between them.

I would like to thank everyone, I've been able to figure out my lights and other stuff by reading posts, but I couldn't find any help on getting the adjustment correct on a Herbie Drain, so if this has been answered, I apologize for the repeat.

Which also leads me to believe that I am not doing something right because no one else seems to have the same problem.

 

[Frags 2 Fishes]

The main drain should be a decent amount lower than the emergency. I usually set the emergency drains so they are about an inch or two below the top of the overflow and the main drain closer to the middle of bottom of the overflow chamber. You will close the gate valve on the main drain slowly until the water level rises pretty close to the level of your emergency. This should drain quietly.


If you are having trouble adjusting the valve or if it needs tinkered with all the time then your return pump may not be pushing consistent flow. If you are using a manifold or have it running multiple things that can impact things.

Post some pictures of the plumbing as well as the drain plumbing if possible. The main drain should just be a pipe with maybe a screen over it and emergency should be a straight pipe with no cover.

 

[mfinn]

If you post pictures of inside the overflow box and in the sump that shows the drains, maybe someone can spot something

 

[KrisReef]

Hello,
I am new again to Saltwater.

I would like to thank everyone, I've been able to figure out my lights and other stuff by reading posts, but I couldn't find any help on getting the adjustment correct on a Herbie Drain, so if this has been answered, I apologize for the repeat.

Did you change your name and post these other questions as someone else? Your post count indicates you are new and that this is your first post?

Which also leads me to believe that I am not doing something right because no one else seems to have the same problem.

I think that a lot of questions posted on here are computer generated.

I have a question; How do we know when we are responding to a computer generated question and not a reefer?

 

[Snoopy 67]

You only mention turning a valve.
IS IT A GATE VALVE???
Gate valves are needed because they allow much finer adjustments to be made.
With a ball valve you will fail 99.9% of the time.

 

[TacticalBacon]

The main drain should be a decent amount lower than the emergency. I usually set the emergency drains so they are about an inch or two below the top of the overflow and the main drain closer to the middle of bottom of the overflow chamber. You will close the gate valve on the main drain slowly until the water level rises pretty close to the level of your emergency. This should drain quietly.


If you are having trouble adjusting the valve or if it needs tinkered with all the time then your return pump may not be pushing consistent flow. If you are using a manifold or have it running multiple things that can impact things.

Post some pictures of the plumbing as well as the drain plumbing if possible. The main drain should just be a pipe with maybe a screen over it and emergency should be a straight pipe with no cover.

Sorry for the delay, this one helped, Identify the problem. I have a suction thing (pipe with a strainer) coming today and I am hoping I get it right.

I couldn't figure out how to find my threads and then just found them today. I had been reading for about 2 weeks now and its been driving me nuts but I got it close the way it is but the noise I am trying to eliminate is likely due to not having anything in the Main Drain/Hole, the emergency is a pipe.

I have attached some pictures, I think this is what you asked for. The blue valve is really tight and when I turn it, it takes a lot to turn it then it loosens up, then turns easily.

Again, apologies for not being too computer literate. I have been on this site every day (except weekends) and am having a heck of a time navigating it.

 

[DCR]

You need to replace the full siphon ball valve with a gate valve. Making the necessary adjustments with a ball valve is practically impossible. Also, you want to adjust the valve so that there is a small trickle going down the emergency or secondary overflow. It is difficult to adjust it so that the water level is between the two overflows without creating a large waterfall.

 

[TacticalBacon]

You need to replace the full siphon ball valve with a gate valve. Making the necessary adjustments with a ball valve is practically impossible. Also, you want to adjust the valve so that there is a small trickle going down the emergency or secondary overflow. It is difficult to adjust it so that the water level is between the two overflows without creating a large waterfall.

Now I don't feel as incompetent. I didn't know the ball valve and gate valve were so different. TBH, I didn't even get an option, I would have paid for the other one.

My LFS put this together for me, I went in for an AIO, but came out with a larger tank, the AIO was too small and I wanted it to be a bit bigger.

I think I am done cycling, so I still have time to get everything right.

 

[mpatterson42]

A gate valve allows for much finer tuning. What kind of return pump do you have? If it's a DC pump that allows for minor changes you might be able to use that but it depends on how consistent the flow is.

 

[TacticalBacon]

A gate valve allows for much finer tuning. What kind of return pump do you have? If it's a DC pump that allows for minor changes you might be able to use that but it depends on how consistent the flow is.

I have a DC pump, it is 1-20 in the adjustment range, 793GPH, I can go up by 5% increments. Right now, on a 43G DT and ~5g sump, I put 45g of saltwater in it, so I am calling it a 45g total. I have 55 pounds of life (it wasn't live rock) rock.

I have my return pump set on 12, which is ~475.2gph, which is a little higher, I think I could go up or down.

I bought the wrong size pipe strainer for the overflow box, but I did adjust the return pump down from 14 to 12 and it is making a very small trickling noise now.

I also spent 30 more minutes adjusting the dang valve.

I am hoping when I get the new pipe, it will silent it a bit more, right now it is very peaceful and just a few ticks louder than what I was hearing other people were getting.

The emergency drain (is that what it is called) has the water circling just over it, I would say it is too much but it is so much quieter than it was, I am leaving it for now.

 

[TacticalBacon]

I got the bulkhead slip suction screen and adjusted the Return Pump and it is humming like a bumble bee, in a good way, nice and quiet.

Thank you for all the help.

 

[Snoopy 67]

NO matter what-- you should put a Ball Valve in the drain line.
The first time you have to make an adjustment you will wish you had!

 

[TacticalBacon]

NO matter what-- you should put a Ball Valve in the drain line.
The first time you have to make an adjustment you will wish you had!

I am going to replace the entire line.
Any ball valve or a specific brand?
I dont want to keep fighting the dang thing. Its a pain to turn and if/when i need to adjust the return pump and or the drain, it will be the same issue.

 

[TacticalBacon]

I am going to replace the piece from the plastic tube down.

 

[mfinn]

NO matter what-- you should put a Ball Valve in the drain line.
The first time you have to make an adjustment you will wish you had!

He needs to use a gate valve.

 

[Snoopy 67]

MY Error, Gate Valve is the correct answer!
Brain Fart--

 

[TacticalBacon]

MY Error, Gate Valve is the correct answer!
Brain Fart--

I am still confused. If I am tracking correctly, the ball valve is bad, it is super cheap, like 6-10 bucks. The Gate Valve is 40-80 bucks based on what I've seen online.

Just to confirm, the gate valve has a twist top (most of the ones I've seen) and the ball valve has a lever or twist lever on top.

So the Gate valve handle is like a Ball and a Ball valve Handle is like a gate.

Any suggestions where to get online? I am also thinking getting one for Saltwater is better, but that is an assumption.

 

[DCR]

You want a Spears gate valve. I would use threaded connections so that it can be replaced or removed easily

 

[TacticalBacon]

You want a Spears gate valve. I would use threaded connections so that it can be replaced or removed easily

I think I am going to do a slip joint and then the gate valve and be able to remove it at the slip joint and replace there.

I think I have it figured out

 

[90addict]

I think I am going to do a slip joint and then the gate valve and be able to remove it at the slip joint and replace there.

I think I have it figured out

Pretty sure the "slip joint" gate valves are so you can glue them. Not removable. You just "slip" it on, it still slip right off when you're sleeping. But 100% want the gate valve just to be clear. Spend the money