Nitrate and phosphate levels

[Spardad]

Just thought to have a discussion on nitrate and phosphate levels for a mixed reef tank. Please add input on thoughts on the topic.
Reading many things online that contradict one another.
Im at 16ppm no3 and .02 po4
6 months in cycled lps softies and a few fish
What levels of nitrates are too high? Ive heard below 10ppm is ideal or below 20ppm is good as well. Below 5ppm is ideal for sps corals. Above 40ppm is toxic.
Below .05ppm phosphates is ideal.
Can we get additional thoughts on the subject. Success stories of others and what they usually have for readings and problems those of you have had with higher readings etc.
I looked for answers on our site and all were vauge on specific issues. This could be a good reference for some of us newbies on the subject and could answer alot of questions. Thank you.

 

[PeterC99]

Your levels look very good! What do you do to obtain them?

 

[anthonygf]

I was running my No3 at 5ppm and Po4 at 0.06-0.04 had lots of algae and some cyano. Now my No3 is 25ppm and po4 is 0.112-0.122 and cyano is alot less, going away actually and corals look much happier and growing faster. i had to treat tank with Flux to get rid of the GHA because there was to much for my CUC, over 300+ snails in my 75. I also have a clam and has grown 2 inches in the past year.

 

[anthonygf]

I think the reason for the nutrient increase was because I got rid of all the GHA, and was stealing food from my corals and clam.

 

[ying yang]

New here also with 7 month tank, dry rock,dry sand start and nitrate 20-40 and phosphate 0.25 i think it was when tested other day ( both salifert) only do 10% water change each and every week.
What ive learnt is dry food tends to have more phosphates and due to latest fish bought it better me feeding fresh/frozen anyway.
I often read 0 .003 phosphates and 5- 10 nitrates are good numbers to have but then read yes they are but can bottom out to 0 quicker so not much le-way and can run into additional problems like dino's.

But also read alot its not about the numbers ( aslong as not to sky high,its just keeping stable and watch your tank of what its telling you and dont make rash/panic re-actions.

Also read depends what kind of tank you got as some corals more forgiven than others and some like higher nutrient levels than others.

As you can see i say " i read often" as im new and may read something wrong or remembered wrong so if i did,feel free to correct me,im just adding my 2 pence worth so can follow thread and learn more ^_^

 

[Spardad]

My ammonia and nitrites have been pretty much 0 for over two months now but nitrates were pushing 40 to 50 before a water change and down to in the 20s after. 72g tank with 15 g sump.
Just performed 3 20% water changes in the last 3 days to get it where it is for nitrates. Have 2 clowns, "komini" tang, pistol shrimp, the watchman goby found in the filter sock the day after buying the tang last weekend. Not sure if it was the tang or the nitrates that killed it. All my corals are thriving, my hammer has become more transparent in the last 2 months. Thought it was too much light so i moved him lower in the tank. That hasnt helped, read it may be the nitrates. So here I am. Asking for peoples opinions on there thoughts on nitrates n phosphates just so it can easily bee looked up for others who have similar questions on the matter.

Ps. My pistol shrimp is now lonely.

 

[anthonygf]

I don't feed my fish frozen anymore, they really don't care for it. For the last 8 months it is mainly quality assorted flakes twice a day, Oyster and Roti feast 2 or 3 times a week, phyto and zoo daily.

 

[anthonygf]

My ammonia and nitrites have been pretty much 0 for over two months now but nitrates were pushing 40 to 50 before a water change and down to in the 20s after. 72g tank with 15 g sump.
Just performed 3 20% water changes in the last 3 days to get it where it is for nitrates. Have 2 clowns, "komini" tang, pistol shrimp, the watchman goby found in the filter sock the day after buying the tang last weekend. Not sure if it was the tang or the nitrates that killed it. All my corals are thriving, my hammer has become more transparent in the last 2 months. Thought it was too much light so i moved him lower in the tank. That hasnt helped, read it may be the nitrates. So here I am. Asking for peoples opinions on there thoughts on nitrates n phosphates just so it can easily bee looked up for others who have similar questions on the matter.

Ps. My pistol shrimp is now lonely.

Do you have a skimmer? Refugium?

 

[anthonygf]

I have a 75 gallon DT and 10 sump with filter box, skimmer, UV light, heater and return pump. 10 gallon WC weekly.

 

[anthonygf]

I don't know at what level nitrates become toxic but I would not want it that high.

 

[Spardad]

Do you have a skimmer? Refugium?

Yes curve 5 bubble magus skimmer. no refugium

 

[anthonygf]

I have the CPR Aquatic Aquafuge 2 Hang-on refugium with grape calurpa and Inovative Marine CheatoMax Refugium LED Light. Works great.

 

[ncjeepguy75]

Just tested today.. My nitrates are 16ppm and Phosphates . 10ppm.
Mixed 100 gal with soft, sps, and lps.
My leather corals really are open with the levels like this, birds nests and blue branching montipora are really vividly colored.

I have been dosing nitrates via sodium nitrate and keep some phosguard in the sump.

My fuge has chaeto and is lit for about 6-7 hours opposite the display and has a protein skimmer.

So my take... Everything seems to be doing great and is happy... I don't really chase numbers but rather just keep an eye on them!

 

[Cory]

I dont think a solid number is desirable but a fluctuating number. Start with 0s for po4 and no3. Dose both and let them get consumed would be ideal. Practical? Not really.

 

[Timfish]

And you'll be getting conflicting answers for years to come most likely. One probelm is while we can only test for dissolved inorganic forms of nitrogen (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) and dissoloved inorganic phosphorus (phosphate, PO4) corals may use particulate and organic forms which we can't test for and keep in mind this will vary between species and what one species/genotype likes species/genotype another won't,. To add to the complexity, dissolved organic carbon and microbial activity may or may not be a factor also. Here's some links if you want to read some of the research done by scientists:

Ammonium Uptake by Symbiotic and Aposymbiotic Reef Corals

Ammonium Uptake by Symbiotic and Aposymbiotic Reef Corals: Ingenta Connect

www.ingentaconnect.com

Amino acids a source of nitrogen for corals

Uptake of dissolved free amino acids by the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

SUMMARY. This study was designed to assess the importance of dissolved free amino acids (DFAA) as a nitrogen source for the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata. For this purpose, experiments were performed using 15N-enriched DFAAs, and %15N enrichment was measured both in animal tissue and...

journals.biologists.com

Urea a source of nitrogen for corals

Urea uptake by the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

Urea can be one of the major sources of nitrogen for phytoplankton, but little is known about its importance for corals. Experiments were therefore de…

www.sciencedirect.com

Diazotrpophs a source of nitrogen for corals

Diazotrophs: a non-negligible source of nitrogen for the tropical coral Stylophora pistillata - PubMed

Corals are mixotrophs: they are able to fix inorganic carbon through the activity of their symbiotic dinoflagellates and to gain nitrogen from predation on plankton and uptake of dissolved organic and inorganic nutrients. They also live in close association with diverse diazotrophic communities...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Context Dependant Effects of Nutrient Loading on the Coral-Algal Mutualism

Context-dependent effects of nutrient loading on the coral-algal mutualism | Request PDF

Request PDF | Context-dependent effects of nutrient loading on the coral-algal mutualism | Human-mediated increases in nutrient availability alter patterns of primary production, impact species diversity, and threaten ecosystem function.... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on...

www.researchgate.net

An experimental mesocosm for long-term studies of reef corals | Journal of the Marine Biological Association of the United Kingdom | Cambridge Core

An experimental mesocosm for long-term studies of reef corals - Volume 92 Issue 4

www.cambridge.org

An Experimental Mesocosm for Longterm Studies of Reef Corals

Phosphate Deficiency:
Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching:

Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching - Nature Climate Change

Increased dissolved inorganic nitrogen (DIN) concentrations in sea water have been linked to a reduction of the temperature threshold at which corals bleach, however, the mechanism underlying this change is not known. This phenomenon is now explained in terms of increased phosphatase activities...

www.nature.com

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont:

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont

Reef building corals associated with symbiotic algae (zooxanthellae) can access environmental nutrients from different sources, most significantly via the uptake of dissolved inorganic nutrients by the algal symbiont and heterotrophic feeding of the coral host. Climate change is expected to...

www.frontiersin.org

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Enrichment of reef environments with dissolved inorganic nutrients is considered a major threat to the survival of corals living in symbiosis with din…

www.sciencedirect.com

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

Phosphate contamination can negatively affect corals, modifying growth rates, skeletal density, reproduction, mortality, and zooxanthellae. We determi…

www.sciencedirect.com

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

SUMMARYSeveral untested aspects of the regulation of inorganic nutrient uptake were examined using nutrient depletion experiments with the symbiotic coral Stylophora pistillata. The total inhibition of phosphate uptake in artificial seawater lacking sodium indicates the involvement of a...

jeb.biologists.org

Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts

https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ecm.1217?casa_token=ziDzrEEJ8g0AAAAA%3AHnfuGTIntMdqOtx2ij-lnoTh7qVg8VBhYFz98e60zfBEvx5IcIVGhmlpUYmzIJuqUNVm0sG8_0vth6lq

2657円まるいち 博多辛子明太子(無着色) 「博多の華」 (ギフト用) 180g Z6572海産物イクラ,タラコ,魚卵 Qoo10]　「博　まるいち　博多辛子明太子(無着色) | therichross.com

2657円まるいち 博多辛子明太子(無着色) 「博多の華」 (ギフト用) 180g Z6572海産物イクラ,タラコ,魚卵 Qoo10]　「博　まるいち　博多辛子明太子(無着色) | therichross.com

therichross.com

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Marine sponges are ubiquitous colonizers of shallow, clear-water environments in the oceans (1, 2). Sponges have emerged as significant mediators of biogeochemical fluxes in coastal zones by virtue of respiring organic matter and facilitating both the consumption and release of nutrients (3, 4)...

www.pnas.org

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Coral reefs are highly productive ecosystems that raise a conundrum called “Darwin’s paradox”: How can high production flourish in low-nutrient conditions? We show here that in three abundant Caribbean sponges, the granules that have been commonly observed in sponge tissue for decades are...

www.pnas.org

Role of elevated organic carbon levels and microbial activity in coral mortality

http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2006/314/m314p119.pdf

Effects of Coral Reef Benthic Primary Producers on Dissolved Organic Carbon and Microbial Activity
Algae releases significantly more DOC into the water than coral.

Effects of Coral Reef Benthic Primary Producers on Dissolved Organic Carbon and Microbial Activity

Benthic primary producers in marine ecosystems may significantly alter biogeochemical cycling and microbial processes in their surrounding environment. To examine these interactions, we studied dissolved organic matter release by dominant benthic taxa and subsequent microbial remineralization in...

journals.plos.org

Pathologies and mortality rates caused by organic carbon and nutrient stressors in three Caribbean coral species.
Starch and sugars (doc) caused coral death but not high nitrates, phosphates or ammonium.

http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2005/294/m294p173.pdf

Coral and macroalgal exudates vary in neutral sugar composition and differentially enrich reef bacterioplankton lineages.

Coral and macroalgal exudates vary in neutral sugar composition and differentially enrich reef bacterioplankton lineages - PubMed

Increasing algal cover on tropical reefs worldwide may be maintained through feedbacks whereby algae outcompete coral by altering microbial activity. We hypothesized that algae and coral release compositionally distinct exudates that differentially alter bacterioplankton growth and community...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Sugar enrichment provides evidence for a role of nitrogen fixation in coral bleaching

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onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Elevated ammonium delays the impairment of the coral-dinoflagellate symbiosis during labile carbon pollution
(here's an argument for maintaining heavy fish loads if you're carbon dosing)

Elevated ammonium delays the impairment of the coral-dinoflagellate symbiosis during labile carbon pollution

Labile dissolved organic carbon (DOC) is a major pollutant in coastal marine environments affected by anthropogenic impacts, and may significantly con…

www.sciencedirect.com

Excess labile carbon promotes the expression of virulence factors in coral reef bacterioplankton

Excess labile carbon promotes the expression of virulence factors in coral reef bacterioplankton - The ISME Journal

Coastal pollution and algal cover are increasing on many coral reefs, resulting in higher dissolved organic carbon (DOC) concentrations. High DOC concentrations strongly affect microbial activity in reef waters and select for copiotrophic, often potentially virulent microbial populations. High...

www.nature.com

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Marine sponges are ubiquitous colonizers of shallow, clear-water environments in the oceans (1, 2). Sponges have emerged as significant mediators of biogeochemical fluxes in coastal zones by virtue of respiring organic matter and facilitating both the consumption and release of nutrients (3, 4)...

www.pnas.org

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Coral reefs are highly productive ecosystems that raise a conundrum called “Darwin’s paradox”: How can high production flourish in low-nutrient conditions? We show here that in three abundant Caribbean sponges, the granules that have been commonly observed in sponge tissue for decades are...

www.pnas.org

Differential recycling of coral and algal dissolved organic matter via the sponge loop.
Sponges treat DOC from algae differently than DOC from corals

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besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"

 

[kingjames_dc5]

I would say your no3 are a bit high. Lps typically like more dirty water but that may be a bit to much. Mine no3 have been at 15-20ppm since the start of my tank. And is still to this day. Tank is now 8 months old. I have a smaller tank and do 25% wc once a month. I run a skimmer 24/7 and mange to keep my po4 around .05 consistent. Feeding frozen once a day in the morning time and spot feeding corals twice a week at night. I use Hanna for po4 and salifert for no3. I think if your tank is newer that could be the cause of your issue or possibly the water your roping off with or mixing your salt with if you do that. Sorry for your losses we have all hand them and feel for you loss.