No growth in some corals, a lot in others.

[KonradTO]

Please help, I need some suggestions!
After adding quite a lot of frags in the last months I can't avoid to keep noticing that some of my oldest frags still show no growth.
Especially zoas, duncans and blue seriatopora.
In comparison I have a beautiful hammer which is showing a clear bubble, which I understand is symptom of splitting head. My candy cane went from 2 heads to 6 in 4-5 months. Pink seriatopora, which is the newest addition (1 month only) is already branching like crazy (pic attached). A blue acro is encrusting over the plug and the red plating montipora is growing literally on the glass.
Despite this, my duncan which has been for 9 months in the tank has not grown a single new head. It always had great PE and just last month I had to move it to another spot because the cleaner shrimp and bicolor blenny were picking at it, but after moving the polyps opened right away. The blue seriatopora as well, it shows great PE but no growth at all.
The most striking are the zoas. After 1 year not a single new polyp.
Where should I start investigating?

tank is 32g, 16 months old, everything covered with coralline algae and teaming with biodiversity. params are stable and in check:
Alk: 7.5, dosing diy 2 parts
Cal: 390ppm like above
Mag: hovers around 1350, I add some diy when it goes down but with water changes it is quite stable
NO3: I had high NO3 for months, now keeping at 1-2 ppm
PO4: between 0.3 and 0.8 depending on feedings
Lighting before was LED now T5 ATI 4x39w.

 

[blaxsun]

Myself, I'd slowly increase your alkalinity to at least 8 (ideally 8.25-8.5 dKH), calcium to 450-500ppm and magnesium to 1400-1450ppm. I'd also try to maintain nitrates of at least 5ppm and phosphates of 0.1-0.15ppm. Beyond that, lighting (test your PAR levels) and flow are two other areas you can look at as well as your peak pH level during the day.

 

[Timfish]

Sounds like pretty typical frustration of keeping a range of animals together that really aren't at all closely related and may have very different and contradictory requirements.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Please help, I need some suggestions!
After adding quite a lot of frags in the last months I can't avoid to keep noticing that some of my oldest frags still show no growth.
Especially zoas, duncans and blue seriatopora.
In comparison I have a beautiful hammer which is showing a clear bubble, which I understand is symptom of splitting head. My candy cane went from 2 heads to 6 in 4-5 months. Pink seriatopora, which is the newest addition (1 month only) is already branching like crazy (pic attached). A blue acro is encrusting over the plug and the red plating montipora is growing literally on the glass.
Despite this, my duncan which has been for 9 months in the tank has not grown a single new head. It always had great PE and just last month I had to move it to another spot because the cleaner shrimp and bicolor blenny were picking at it, but after moving the polyps opened right away. The blue seriatopora as well, it shows great PE but no growth at all.
The most striking are the zoas. After 1 year not a single new polyp.
Where should I start investigating?

tank is 32g, 16 months old, everything covered with coralline algae and teaming with biodiversity. params are stable and in check:
Alk: 7.5, dosing diy 2 parts
Cal: 390ppm like above
Mag: hovers around 1350, I add some diy when it goes down but with water changes it is quite stable
NO3: I had high NO3 for months, now keeping at 1-2 ppm
PO4: between 0.3 and 0.8 depending on feedings
Lighting before was LED now T5 ATI 4x39w.

Alk slightly low but can be an alk/CA imbalance, low ph, more light in some areas and lack of flow (dead spots within tank)

 

[KonradTO]

I will try to brainstorm out here some possible ideas, some feedback on these would be greatly appreciated!!
- some heavy metals are affecting some corals and not others which are more sensitive--> ICP
- either mag or cal tests are faulty--> new test, reference solution
- NO3 is too low for the corals not growing. This would be odd because I went through some phases with 10-20 ppm NO3 for some time but they still did not grow by then. Maybe they need few months at higher nutrients, but I am not sure it is good idea considering sps.
-feeding is not an issue, I feed them quite regularly.
- some microelement is lacking? I do 10% WC twice every month, so it should not be a problem I guess
- there are pests irritating some corals. I have a lot of those flatworms with Y-shaped tail. Afaik those should feed on algae and copepods, but maybe they irritate them nonetheless.
- chemical warfare between corals? I use activated carbon for that but maybe I need more?
- low ph. My ph is on the low end, especially in winter. Usually as low as 7.8 at night
-???

 

[vetteguy53081]

I will try to brainstorm out here some possible ideas, some feedback on these would be greatly appreciated!!
- some heavy metals are affecting some corals and not others which are more sensitive--> ICP
- either mag or cal tests are faulty--> new test, reference solution
- NO3 is too low for the corals not growing. This would be odd because I went through some phases with 10-20 ppm NO3 for some time but they still did not grow by then. Maybe they need few months at higher nutrients, but I am not sure it is good idea considering sps.
-feeding is not an issue, I feed them quite regularly.
- some microelement is lacking? I do 10% WC twice every month, so it should not be a problem I guess
- there are pests irritating some corals. I have a lot of those flatworms with Y-shaped tail. Afaik those should feed on algae and copepods, but maybe they irritate them nonetheless.
- chemical warfare between corals? I use activated carbon for that but maybe I need more?
- low ph. My ph is on the low end, especially in winter. Usually as low as 7.8 at night
-???

Other issues for process of elimination:
- Alkalinity spike
- Temperature spike
- Salinity spike
- Low dissolved oxygen
- Poor water quality related with phosphate levels up to 5 ppm
- Change in water flow
- Additions of sand
- Changes in brand of salt
- Bad test kits giving faulty results
- Levels of minor elements such as Iodine, Potassium, Strontium
- Light intensity
- - Changes in water flow
- Addition of new corals
- - Pesticides
- Airborne Contaminants or sprays

 

[Pridedcloth3]

You probably got the same duncan as me. First year nothing but afterwards its popping heads left, right and underneath. It's even just about completely encrusted the plug. Give it time they are known to be fast growers but I guess there's a few that gotta get warmed up.

 

[KonradTO]

Sounds like pretty typical frustration of keeping a range of animals together that really aren't at all closely related and may have very different and contradictory requirements.

I agree that sps+softies+lps is asking for trouble, but when I added the duncan to the tank for example, I was running a "typical" lps tank with higher nutrients and lower light. Also I see many users with great lps growth on the sandbed and huge acros on the top. My sensation is that nothing really grows like it should aside for some exceptions. But maybe it's my expectations that are flawed..

 

[KonradTO]

You probably got the same duncan as me. First year nothing but afterwards its popping heads left, right and underneath. It's even just about completely encrusted the plug. Give it time they are known to be fast growers but I guess there's a few that gotta get warmed up.

Oh good to know that it might change. Did you make some substantial change in your system before the start of the "boost"?
The thing that makes my frustration is reading from people getting new heads popping out every month and mine is not even showing any signs of growth. I mean some of the corals which are not growing should be bulletproof while acro is encrusting..

 

[Lavey29]

Have you par checked your tank?

 

[Pridedcloth3]

I agree that sps+softies+lps is asking for trouble, but when I added the duncan to the tank for example, I was running a "typical" lps tank with higher nutrients and lower light. Also I see many users with great lps growth on the sandbed and huge acros on the top. My sensation is that nothing really grows like it should aside for some exceptions. But maybe it's my expectations that are flawed..

Not at all, I have sps and lps all in a 45 gallon cube with 16hds. At one point there were softies in but needed something to give movement to another tank. Chill out feed feed it diced krill and let wait it out.

 

[KonradTO]

Myself, I'd slowly increase your alkalinity to at least 8 (ideally 8.25-8.5 dKH), calcium to 450-500ppm and magnesium to 1400-1450ppm. I'd also try to maintain nitrates of at least 5ppm and phosphates of 0.1-0.15ppm. Beyond that, lighting (test your PAR levels) and flow are two other areas you can look at as well as your peak pH level during the day.

I am following the levels of the red sea blue bucket in general, so when I do wc I am not getting some weird fluctuations.. maybe I could slowly increase the levels and additionate some Ca and Mag to the new water when I do wc. For nutrients I am feeding like crazy. I finally solved my dinos problem with the skimmer, so I am a bit hesitant at changing nutient levels in a considerable way..
Concerning lighting I think I am around 500 par on the top and 150-200 on the sand where lps corals are. This from other people PAR readings with ati t5s. Before september I had half of that par levels but with leds.
Flow its hard to judge. If I count the gph of the pumps I have over 100x but the corals don't sway too much comparing to videos of other tanks..I will upload a video of the flow tomorrow maybe so I can at least exclude a problem with that..

 

[KonradTO]

Have you par checked your tank?

No but there are many par readings from my same type of fixture out there. 4 ati bulbs make for 500 par at the top and 150-200 where my sand is (30cm below the water, 45cm from the fixture)

 

[Lavey29]

No but there are many par readings from my same type of fixture out there. 4 ati bulbs make for 500 par at the top and 150-200 where my sand is (30cm below the water, 45cm from the fixture)

I thought the same going off par readings for my radion lights on the exact same tank I found on the net. When I finally par checked them I was shocked at how low my par was. My corals were healthy but had not really developed size. As I increased my par with 100% intensity, the corals exploded with new growth.

Until you par check, you may be over lighting or under lighting your corals. Particularly difficult to balance light and flow in mixed reef tanks. Your nitrates are low. You need at least 10 for LPS.

 

[KonradTO]

Other issues for process of elimination:
- Alkalinity spike x
- Temperature spike x
- Salinity spike x
- Low dissolved oxygen <-
- Poor water quality related with phosphate x levels up to 5 ppm
- Change in water flow <-
- Additions of sand x
- Changes in brand of salt x
- Bad test kits giving faulty results ?
- Levels of minor elements such as Iodine, Potassium, Strontium ?
- Light intensity x
- Addition of new corals ?
- - Pesticides /oh god hopefully not
- Airborne Contaminants or sprays/ how do I know?

The main points for which I am sure to have some issues are:
-pH: I never managed to go over 8.2 at peak despite the CO2 scrubber and skimmer drawing from outside/windows opened etc
-flow: everytime I clean the powerheads I need to dial down the power and then slowly I increase when they slow down again. But it seems quite confusing to me why should be a problem. In the sea there are currents in every direction and wave strenght changes along day/week/year

- I had some tin levels in my last ICP but if it was a problem still I would not get sps PE and growth right?

 

[KonradTO]

I thought the same going off par readings for my radion lights on the exact same tank I found on the net. When I finally par checked them I was shocked at how low my par was. My corals were healthy but had not really developed size. As I increased my par with 100% intensity, the corals exploded with new growth.

Until you par check, you may be over lighting or under lighting your corals. Particularly difficult to balance light and flow in mixed reef tanks. Your nitrates are low. You need at least 10 for LPS.

As I mentioned above, following some issues with dinos I reduced the amount of macro in the fuge and started skimming for removing organics, while feeding more. Now I feel like the tank found its equilibrium, so I get no more algae on the glass but still a lot of microfauna thriving. And no more dinos (for now, knock knock) most importantly. So you can understand I am a bit hesitant at changing my nutrient levels, at least in the short term.. but I had this very tank with the duncan at 10ppm for months and it was right the same

Concerning par you are righ, my reflectors could be old or something. Maybe if its reliable with t5 I could give it a try with the seneye. The alternatives are too expensive and here in Europe shops don't usually lend par meters to customers..

 

[Lavey29]

As I mentioned above, following some issues with dinos I reduced the amount of macro in the fuge and started skimming for removing organics, while feeding more. Now I feel like the tank found its equilibrium, so I get no more algae on the glass but still a lot of microfauna thriving. And no more dinos (for now, knock knock) most importantly. So you can understand I am a bit hesitant at changing my nutrient levels, at least in the short term.. but I had this very tank with the duncan at 10ppm for months and it was right the same

Concerning par you are righ, my reflectors could be old or something. Maybe if its reliable with t5 I could give it a try with the seneye. The alternatives are too expensive and here in Europe shops don't usually lend par meters to customers..

Try the photone app with your phone. It gives a decent par reading that was not far off at all from the par meter I used. It's free.

 

[vetteguy53081]

The main points for which I am sure to have some issues are:
-pH: I never managed to go over 8.2 at peak despite the CO2 scrubber and skimmer drawing from outside/windows opened etc
-flow: everytime I clean the powerheads I need to dial down the power and then slowly I increase when they slow down again. But it seems quite confusing to me why should be a problem. In the sea there are currents in every direction and wave strenght changes along day/week/year

- I had some tin levels in my last ICP but if it was a problem still I would not get sps PE and growth right?

agree

 

[KonradTO]

Something interesting is that one of my acro is encrusting, the other has polyps out and look like is doing ok. So either it is something to do with light (the encrusting acro sits right at the top of the tank) or with nutrient levels. Any idea on what differences in needs there are between a duncan and a candy cane ? Or between the pink seriatopora and the blue one

 

[KonradTO]

Try the photone app with your phone. It gives a decent par reading that was not far off at all from the par meter I used. It's free.

Basically you measure at water surface and then estimate the difference by distance from the fixture? Or you actually dip your phone in the water xD