No more water changes needed
- Thread starter Eckolancer
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Eckolancer
LED GURU
I dosed MB7 once I started to see a little algae growing. This helped kick them into over drive after a week. Before they started working I was doing small water changes just to bring down nitrate. Mine did spike as high at 120 but only for a couple days and dropped fast. If you don't see the nitrate drop down under 5 add a little more pellets to the container. I started with 500 grams and ended up with 1000. Which is a lot more then recommended. I am feeding 3 pellet feedings a day as well as 3 cubes frozen and algae in the tank at all times. One last thing is I had read that keeping alk closer to 8dkh and cal closer to 420 will help with sps showing burnt tips. I did burn mine at first but have all grown back now.
chrisfraser05
Community Member
Something I'm surprised nobody has mentioned yet is that with the addition of Sodium Bicarbonate and calcium chloride we are slowly increasing our salinity.
The Bicarbonate and Calcium are consumed leaving Sodium Chloride, or salt without the other elements.
Over time this will rise, especially in an sps heavy system.
Balling salts do this where as calcium reactors and aparently the DSR method do not.
From what I gather Triton does addition this too, the difference being your icp test will show you these values, also you remove salt water in Groton with a 4th channel on your dosing pump.
Skimming removes salt water, IF you can balance the level of removed salt water through the skimmer with the amount of added salt, you get my respect.
In a light stocked (coral) system with a lot of added bicarb/cal you will likely see rising salinity. In a light stocked (coral) system with little addition you may actually skim more than you add, meaning a falling salinity.
The best way to balance the system is to measure what you remove (eg 200ml) daily/weekly from the skimmer, replacing that with fresh salt water.
Then to deal with the rising sodium chloride levels do regular water changes.
Your levels will generally always be elevated but should find a balance point with regular wc's that what you add in a week your remove by wc's.
I've seen peoples systems get to a point where even though the salinity reads right, that salinity /st/density is so made up of Sodium Chloride that they struggle to keep levels of magic/cal/all up. They end up with fluctuation and precipitation and just can't see it.
The cure? A water change, almost every time.
As another poster has said, you dose and keep everything up, you filter and keep the bad down.... but long term it will eventually bite unless you are doing something about it.
Rather than eliminate WC's, work out a method that takes the hassle out of them. A piece of equipment or routine that makes it easy.
My changes (15% on a 90G) tank take me 15 mins, and most of that I'm sat drinking a coffee. Make life simple.
The Bicarbonate and Calcium are consumed leaving Sodium Chloride, or salt without the other elements.
Over time this will rise, especially in an sps heavy system.
Balling salts do this where as calcium reactors and aparently the DSR method do not.
From what I gather Triton does addition this too, the difference being your icp test will show you these values, also you remove salt water in Groton with a 4th channel on your dosing pump.
Skimming removes salt water, IF you can balance the level of removed salt water through the skimmer with the amount of added salt, you get my respect.
In a light stocked (coral) system with a lot of added bicarb/cal you will likely see rising salinity. In a light stocked (coral) system with little addition you may actually skim more than you add, meaning a falling salinity.
The best way to balance the system is to measure what you remove (eg 200ml) daily/weekly from the skimmer, replacing that with fresh salt water.
Then to deal with the rising sodium chloride levels do regular water changes.
Your levels will generally always be elevated but should find a balance point with regular wc's that what you add in a week your remove by wc's.
I've seen peoples systems get to a point where even though the salinity reads right, that salinity /st/density is so made up of Sodium Chloride that they struggle to keep levels of magic/cal/all up. They end up with fluctuation and precipitation and just can't see it.
The cure? A water change, almost every time.
As another poster has said, you dose and keep everything up, you filter and keep the bad down.... but long term it will eventually bite unless you are doing something about it.
Rather than eliminate WC's, work out a method that takes the hassle out of them. A piece of equipment or routine that makes it easy.
My changes (15% on a 90G) tank take me 15 mins, and most of that I'm sat drinking a coffee. Make life simple.
chrisfraser05
Community Member
Can't figure out how to edit.....
7th paragraph should read;
In a heavly stocked (coral) system with a lot of added bicarb/cal you will likely see rising salinity. In a light stocked (coral) system with little addition you may actually skim more than you add, meaning a falling salinity.
7th paragraph should read;
In a heavly stocked (coral) system with a lot of added bicarb/cal you will likely see rising salinity. In a light stocked (coral) system with little addition you may actually skim more than you add, meaning a falling salinity.
my 180g has been setup for about 4 years, I used to think it looks great everything tests fine so all must be good.... until about 3-4 months ago, I had a big fish die this set of an avalanche... long story short I found that most of my 6" sand bed is full of hydrogen sulfide!! to fix I am tearing the tank down putting about 300# in my driveway soaking the rock in meratic acid and starting over....
again the tank was beautiful until now its sad loosing $1000's worth of livestock
again the tank was beautiful until now its sad loosing $1000's worth of livestock
reeffirstaid
Active Member
It doesn't make sense to me, to spend all this money, to simply not perform routine water changes. Perhaps someone believes that no water changes will have a positive effect on the aquarium. In nature, the water cycle ensures that there are water changes all the time. Evaporation, rainfall, the cleansing produced by tides and currents. A glass or acrylic box, full of water, that never gets refreshed, becomes a totally closed ecosystem, like those glass balls that were sold years ago, full of plants and snails. If you have a good water change set-up, you shouldn't spend more then 15-20 min on a water change, and they don't have to be large changes.
beaslbob
2500 Club Member
One of the dirty little secrets is that water changes will limit but not correct buildup and depletions in our tanks. So what is important is to balance out the system to limit those changes.
Diy 2 part for calcium/alk/mag, algae for organic wastes and so on.
my .02
Diy 2 part for calcium/alk/mag, algae for organic wastes and so on.
my .02
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ReefMadScientist
Valuable Member
People get into this hobby but then try to find shortcuts lol.
Its either: A.) You do water changes which also replenishes important elements.
Or B.) You dose constantly and have other means to export nitrates.
There is no miracle method. I have a RODI system so water changes are easier and cheaper for me. PERIOD.
Its either: A.) You do water changes which also replenishes important elements.
Or B.) You dose constantly and have other means to export nitrates.
There is no miracle method. I have a RODI system so water changes are easier and cheaper for me. PERIOD.
ReefMadScientist
Valuable Member
Exactly. I have zero nitrates and still perform a 20g water change every two weeks. It only takes a good 20 minutes. Don't waste your time trying to change peoples minds...they just want to always find a miracle shortcut in everything.
ReefMadScientist
Valuable Member
Man thats horrible! Yeah sometimes if we do not gravel vac the sand bed, especially deep sand beds, will just be a toxic bed. Once that gets stirred up, good by corals.
scottishreefer
Community Member
Why is it that if someone does or suggests something against the "norm" in this hobby they get slated. I've been in this hobby for best part of 20 yrs, I'm no expert but I'm no fool either. I've tried different ways to run my tank including water changes, yes, 10-15% faithfully every week also. We all have our own little ways on how we run our tanks. There are guidelines but there are no hard and fast rules that we must obey. I remember the hobby when under gravel filters were the preferred filtration for marine tanks...oh how things have changed since then. Our hobby would never progress if we never ever took chances and tried something new or different. What about the introduction of synthetic salts, Balling or Zeovit?
Although no great revelation, I have chosen not to do water changes for the time being, my choice, my risk. The majority of reefers may do water changes. It doesn't mean to say they'll always be successful. They still can have problems. That is their choice.
Chrisfraser05 mentioned earlier that with the addition of sodium bicarbonate and calcium chloride we slowly increase salinity. Bicarbonates and calcium consumed leaving behind sodium chloride, or salt without the other elements. In addition to these I add NaCl free salts that are all the elements other than those already mentioned. I also dose magnesium chloride, potassium iodide and strontium chloride as required if needed I don't dose what I don't test for other than the numerous trace elements in NaCL free salts. To compensate the slow increase in salinity I remove water from the system (generally in the form of skimmate) or additional water if needed and top up with RODI water. If it were necessary and salinity was low I can increase with Sodium Chloride. Think about it, although I'm not doing a 10% weekly water change as an example, don't you think I'm actually adding a mix of synthetic salt, diluting any excess salinity with skimmate removal and topping up with RODI therefore doing mini continual water changes anyway?
Nitrates and phosphates are being dealt with by the refugium, biopellets and a phosphate
reactor.
Although no great revelation, I have chosen not to do water changes for the time being, my choice, my risk. The majority of reefers may do water changes. It doesn't mean to say they'll always be successful. They still can have problems. That is their choice.
Chrisfraser05 mentioned earlier that with the addition of sodium bicarbonate and calcium chloride we slowly increase salinity. Bicarbonates and calcium consumed leaving behind sodium chloride, or salt without the other elements. In addition to these I add NaCl free salts that are all the elements other than those already mentioned. I also dose magnesium chloride, potassium iodide and strontium chloride as required if needed I don't dose what I don't test for other than the numerous trace elements in NaCL free salts. To compensate the slow increase in salinity I remove water from the system (generally in the form of skimmate) or additional water if needed and top up with RODI water. If it were necessary and salinity was low I can increase with Sodium Chloride. Think about it, although I'm not doing a 10% weekly water change as an example, don't you think I'm actually adding a mix of synthetic salt, diluting any excess salinity with skimmate removal and topping up with RODI therefore doing mini continual water changes anyway?
Nitrates and phosphates are being dealt with by the refugium, biopellets and a phosphate
reactor.
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b_rad_G
Active Member
1. Tell me what trace elements are used by your tank and at what rate you replenish by utilizing water changes. No person in this tread can answer that so don't act a fool and try. If you can't tell me exactly what elements are being used and at what rate they are replenished then no one can use the trace elements argument. For all you know you are poisoning corals by overdosing iodine or copper.
2. The build up of organics propaganda is one of the oldest and most used argument and is simply not true. With the advances in carbon dosing skimmers and aggressive phosphate removal methods that most reefers use any build up of organics is limited. It is also becoming more known that ulns is probably not the best way to run a tank anyways. It seems everyday more and more people discover that some nitrate and phosphate can be needed not only for color but growth of corals.
3. Some water changes are needed. I don't thing anyone is saying to never change water but many are going against the 10-20% weekly old school norm. It is nearly impossible to change 10% and keep stable parameters.
2. The build up of organics propaganda is one of the oldest and most used argument and is simply not true. With the advances in carbon dosing skimmers and aggressive phosphate removal methods that most reefers use any build up of organics is limited. It is also becoming more known that ulns is probably not the best way to run a tank anyways. It seems everyday more and more people discover that some nitrate and phosphate can be needed not only for color but growth of corals.
3. Some water changes are needed. I don't thing anyone is saying to never change water but many are going against the 10-20% weekly old school norm. It is nearly impossible to change 10% and keep stable parameters.
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