Nutrient Saturated Systems

[john.m.cole3]

Ok we all hear to shoot for low but detectable nutrients i.e. nitrates and phosphates.

But I want to hear about the tanks that are running just fine on HIGH nutrients. Like nitrates of 100 and a phosphate reading of 1.0. I'm sure it can be done. I was reading a post where a guy was keeping SPS with nitrates at 160 and phosphates of 1.33!!!

how old is your tank and what corals/fish are in there? throw up a pic for fun.
Celebrate the nutrients :rolleyes::eek::Do_O;):)

 

[mcarroll]

It's about balance. Easy to say, but not so easy to explain or understand in detail.

I think this helps: (I've posted this a few times if you think you've seen it before, but do read the link.)

From: Ratio of energy and nutrient fluxes regulates symbiosis between zooxanthellae and corals by Dubinsky.

Nutrient balance is one of the most important, but seemingly lease understood aspects of aquarium keeping.

[Summarizing] the main interactions and feedback mechanisms connecting light intensity, nutrient level, and feeding in zooxanthellate corals:

1. Under constant nutrient concentration, light intensity determines the onset of nutrient limitation; as light increases, C : N ratios exceed Redfield ratios.
2. The availability of other nutrients, mainly nitrogen, determines the fate of photo-assimilated carbon. Under high C: N ratios, most carbon goes into respiration, calcification, and excreted mucus, whereas low C : N ratios favor increases in zooxanthellae density, reduce translocation, and slow down calcification.
3. Feeding on zooplankton by the coral under low light provides carbon for metabolism. Under high light it supplies both algae and animal with nitrogen.

Considered with some other related info like this:
High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillate

...and it's not unfathomable.

 

[john.m.cole3]

first link took me to a page not found message

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Ok we all hear to shoot for low but detectable nutrients i.e. nitrates and phosphates.

But I want to hear about the tanks that are running just fine on HIGH nutrients. Like nitrates of 100 and a phosphate reading of 1.0. I'm sure it can be done. I was reading a post where a guy was keeping SPS with nitrates at 160 and phosphates of 1.33!!!

how old is your tank and what corals/fish are in there? throw up a pic for fun.
Celebrate the nutrients :rolleyes::eek::Do_O;):)

"4??? Yea thats just stupid high Rich........"DR Sanjay to Rich Ross Macna 2016

 

[mcarroll]

It does that to me occasionally too....not sure what I can do. (I have the free PDF, but I'm not sure if I can post it....I guess let someone delete it if needed.)

Lemme scare it up....I'll be right back.

(Second link work?)

 

[mcarroll]

first link took me to a page not found message

You know what, I bet they are filtering so only referrals from Google get the PDF. Try searching the title and I bet the link you get works. (Clear caches, etc if it doesn't work the first time.)

This is the link from Google (if that works from here).

Ratio of energy and nutrient fluxes regulates symbiosis between zooxanthellae and corals

 

[mcarroll]

I had to do a forced reload on that link to get to this copy:http://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.ed...=Ratio_of_Energy_and_Nutrient_Fluxes_Regu.pdf

I don't know what the story is with academia.edu....I can't find any other way to link this...there's no home page or doi.

Further reference:
Pacific Science (1994), vol. 48, no. 3: 313-324
© 1994 by University of Hawaii Press. All rights reserved

More to come....

 

[happyhourhero]

Does it count if you don't know? I have not tested for nitrates or phosphate in over a year. Tank is 15 Months old.

 

[mcarroll]

I'm glad this cropped up....this is free/open-access material:
https://pacificscience.wordpress.com/open-access-v1-v54/pacific-science-48-1994/

Here's the specific article:
Ratio of Energy and Nutrient Fluxes Regulates Symbiosis between Zooxanthellae and Corals

 

[mcarroll]

Does it count if you don't know? I have not tested for nitrates or phosphate in over a year. Tank is 15 Months old.

Awesome! Totally counts. :)

I've had my tank around 8 years and never had a PO4 or NO3 test kit until recently, when I was kinda forced.

 

[mcarroll]

I'm glad this cropped up....this is free/open-access material:
https://pacificscience.wordpress.com/open-access-v1-v54/pacific-science-48-1994/

Here's the specific article:
Ratio of Energy and Nutrient Fluxes Regulates Symbiosis between Zooxanthellae and Corals

And that whole volume is chock full of articles I wish I'd found sooner.....take a look!

 

[Paul B]

I had my parameters checked a month ago just so I could answer these posts as I rarely test anything.
My reef is 44 years old, my nitrates measured 160 (I think that sounds high but that's what it tested at an LFS.
Phosphate is 2.0
KH is 10 calcium is 460.

I have very few SPS except quite a lot of montapora and a few others. I have mostly LPS like frogspawn and gorgonians.

 

[Brew12]

I had my parameters checked a month ago just so I could answer these posts as I rarely test anything.
My reef is 44 years old, my nitrates measured 160 (I think that sounds high but that's what it tested at an LFS.
Phosphate is 2.0
KH is 10 calcium is 460.

I have very few SPS except quite a lot of montapora and a few others. I have mostly LPS like frogspawn and gorgonians.

PaulB, you should know better than anyone that you can't be successful in this hobby if you don't have very clean water and test almost daily! :p

 

[Brew12]

And that whole volume is chock full of articles I wish I'd found sooner.....take a look!

Thanks! You found a gold mine!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok we all hear to shoot for low but detectable nutrients i.e. nitrates and phosphates.

But I want to hear about the tanks that are running just fine on HIGH nutrients. Like nitrates of 100 and a phosphate reading of 1.0. I'm sure it can be done. I was reading a post where a guy was keeping SPS with nitrates at 160 and phosphates of 1.33!!!

There is one here:

https://reefs.com/2014-1/skeptical-reefkeeping-ix-test-kits-chasing-numbers-and-phosphate/

 

[john.m.cole3]

It does that to me occasionally too....not sure what I can do. (I have the free PDF, but I'm not sure if I can post it....I guess let someone delete it if needed.)

Lemme scare it up....I'll be right back.

(Second link work?)

Second one did, thanks

 

[mcarroll]

#nitrates #phosphates #nutrientcycle #nitrogencycle #carboncycle #phosphatecycle

 

[john.m.cole3]

Awesome! Totally counts. :)

I've had my tank around 8 years and never had a PO4 or NO3 test kit until recently, when I was kinda forced.

What we're your results?

 

[mcarroll]

Of course there's an ongoing story, but... :D

I think my first test was .25 ppm PO4 with 0.00 ppm NO3.

 

[Paul B]

PaulB, you should know better than anyone that you can't be successful in this hobby if you don't have very clean water and test almost daily! :p

I have been saying for many years that chasing numbers is just silly. There is no exact number for anything and I feel it is better to just leave it alone as seawater is very stable as long as you don't mess with it.
(Randy Guido Huchstead wrote that, not me)
That is the reason I don't have any test kits. The bacteria run our reefs and we are just here to give the bacteria something to make fun of. Randy posted a link to some gorgeous reefs with totally "wrong" parameters. I have seen some of those tanks in person. (the one in the Long Island Aquarium). That tank has no nuisance algae, and neither does mine even though the nitrates and phosphates are way of the chart. That is another silly rumor, that nitrates and phosphates cause algae. If that were the case, my reef would be a lettuce farm.
If you read a lot of these posts on all forums, the tanks with the most tweeking have the most problems. Look it up. :cool: