OCEAMO ICP TESTING COMING TO U.S. SOON !!

[Dr. Jim]

Recently, Dr. Christoph Denk, a chemist, research engineer, and founder of OCEAMO contacted me after reading about my “tin problem” on a R2R thread. He generously offered to run 10 ICP tests for me for free for which I am most grateful. (I posted new comments on my “tin thread” here:

Another Triton ICP "High Tin" Case

I know elevated Tin levels have been discussed many times, but I would like to ask some specific questions pertaining to my situation involving Sn = 18 ug/l. (Set point is 0.1 ug/l) My tank (Red Sea Reefer 170L/40gal) and all equipment was brand new 4 months ago. Over the past 4-8 weeks, 30...

www.reef2reef.com

You can probably skip to post #20 if you haven't read any of this before; otherwise, skip to last post.

OCEAMO is located in Austria and is one of the more popular ICP labs for European aquarists. It is expected that test kits will be available in the US by the end of the year. There will be a local collecting point in the U.S. that will forward the pooled samples at least once a week using express service. Turnaround time is expected to be short.

Dr. Denk had this to say:
“The special thing about our service: We are coming from the hobbyist side. I have a PhD in chemistry, a history in research and pharmaceutical production, and have been a long-time reef-keeper. For us it’s very important not to just deliver "numbers" but also give personal advice to the customer. Our test kits contain a questionnaire that is filled out by the customer which allows us to give very pinpointed individual advice. Also my plan is to be available on R2R and other forums to answer questions.

We test RO water in addition to the seawater analysis for copper, zinc and silicon free of charge. Those are the most frequent contaminants in RO water. There is also a RO water analysis available which is not for free but covers all parameters and methodologies.

The cost of the analysis will be higher compared to competitors (USD 59.-), but offers way more service.”

OCEAMO has been featured on ReefBuilders recently:
https://reefbuilders.com/2020/09/08/new-icp-test-service-and-lab-grade-elements-from-oceamo/

For comparison purposes, I (OP) have compiled a table showing differences amongst elements and tests performed by the 3 ICP Test Companies that I have used: Triton, ATI, and OCEAMO:

Some Differences Between Triton, ATI and OCEAMO

TEST	TRITON	ATI	OCEAMO
Sc	X	X	X
W	X	X
Fluorine		X
Fluoride			X
Cl		X	X
Ag		X
NO2			X
NO3		X	X
ALKALINITY		X	X
SALINITY		X	X
Bi		X	X
Tl		X	X
Sulfate			X
Rb-Rubidium			X
U			X
FREE RO/DII Water Test		X	Cu, Zn, Si are Free; Additional Fee for complete panel
PRICE	$47-$49	$45	$59

A sample of an OCEAMO REPORT from my tank can be seen here:

 

[Dr. Jim]

I don't think Report at end of last post will open. Not sure why. Will work on it later. Sorry.


EDIT: Fixed it

 

[Dr. Jim]

I'd really like to show a copy of the Report. Can anyone think of what I might need to do to get the attached file to open?

EDIT: Fixed it

 

[Dr. Jim]

Although I wasn't able to open the link for the REPORT that I posted, I was told that it opened for someone else but it is a ATI report, not an OCEAMO report! Sorry for my mistake. (All this TIN must be getting to my brain!) Here is the correct link:

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks, Jim.

You list fluorine and fluoride differently, but ICP cannot distinguish them. Why the difference?

Just to clarify for other folks, many things in the table are separate test, not done by ICP. That may not be important, but how they do these tests may impact the accuracy. Nitrite, nitrate, and alkalinity, for example.

 

[Dr. Jim]

Thanks, Jim.

You list fluorine and fluoride differently, but ICP cannot distinguish them. Why the difference?

That is just how the different companies report them. I don't know the significance of them being reported differently.

 

[LeftyReefer]

Were those two ATI and Oceamo test results based on the same tank/sample?

Interesting that the ATI test showed 34.73ppsu salinity, but the Oceamo test shows 37.1psu....

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That is just how the different companies report them. I don't know the significance of them being reported differently.

OK, thanks. Strictly speaking ICP detects fluorine in any form, which is likely nearly all fluoride, but it will detect organic forms if any are present.

 

[Dr. Jim]

Were those two ATI and Oceamo test results based on the same tank/sample?

Interesting that the ATI test showed 35ppt salinity, but the Oceamo test shows 37.1ppt....

No they are not. They are from different dates. And, again, I apologize for posting the ATI report by mistake.

(I still can't open the links when apparently others can. I wonder why that is? If anyone has any idea what may be the reason, I'd appreciate hearing it. Thanks!)

 

[LeftyReefer]

(I still can't open the links when apparently others can. I wonder why that is? If anyone has any idea what may be the reason, I'd appreciate hearing it. Thanks!)

Try right clicking -----> "Save Link As"

 

[Christoph]

OK, thanks. Strictly speaking ICP detects fluorine in any form, which is likely nearly all fluoride, but it will detect organic forms if any are present.

Hello Randy,

Fluorine can not be measured using ICP (at least not with the conventional argon plasmas), since the excitation/ionization energy of fluorine is too high. It might work with helium plasma ICPs which are *very* expensive to operate.

We are measuring fluoride (alongside nitrate, nitrite, bromide and sulfate) using anion chromatography. So we are detecting directly the fluoride ion (which is likely the only species of fluorine that occurs in seawater within the water column).

Best regards,
Christoph

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hello Randy,

Fluorine can not be measured using ICP (at least not with the conventional argon plasmas), since the excitation/ionization energy of fluorine is too high. It might work with helium plasma ICPs which are *very* expensive to operate.

We are measuring fluoride (alongside nitrate, nitrite, bromide and sulfate) using anion chromatography. So we are detecting directly the fluoride ion (which is likely the only species of fluorine that occurs in seawater within the water column).

Best regards,
Christoph

Thank you, Christoph. Do you know if ATI is doing a similar test?

 

[Christoph]

Youre welcome!

Yes, as far as i know ATI is also running ion chromatography.

best regards,
Christoph

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm curious about the focus on fluoride. Have you seen many low levels in aquaria, and whether there is apparent benefit to users to raise it to normal?

 

[Christoph]

Hello Randy,

we have no special focus on fluoride, but its the only species of fluorine that occurs in seawater in relevant concentrations, and that is furthermore possible to quantify using ion chromatography.

When no fluoride is dosed levels decline in reef aquaria. We sometimes encounter tanks with concentrations below 0,1 mg/l. Around 50 µg/l weekly is usually working as a "sustaining dose" in a medium stocked tank. The beneficial effects are more anecdotal (and include reports about faster SPS growth and a harder coral skeleton) but honestly we did not conduct any larger scale study to prove those effects scientifically. In my opinion the incorporated fluoride into coral is likely to change physical properties of the CaCO3 matrix.

A published fact is that fluoride is deposited/included into the coral skeleton in significant amounts (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10967-005-0863-x, https://www.terrapub.co.jp/journals/GJ/pdf/4405/44050371.pdf).

Best regards,
Christoph

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks.

I tried dosing the ESV bromide/fluoride supplement years ago and saw no apparent effect, but also was not measuring anything.

 

[PSXerholic]

Thanks.

I tried dosing the ESV bromide/fluoride supplement years ago and saw no apparent effect, but also was not measuring anything.

From my own experience with the Reef Moonshiner's system/method, you will only see apparent differences and success in Coral husbandry if you tackle all the important ones into the routine. And they have to tested and to be within a lowest/highest threshold to work. With a solid method and electronic tools this can be well performed with ease by almost any Reefkeeper even without a Bachelor in science ;-)
So many Results don't lie...........

I worked and talked a lot with Christoph Denk and can highly recommend the Oceamo ICP lab as well.
We both shared a lot of our practices and dosages and limits we run. Great to see him chiming in on the Fluoride subject. For me a must to maintain Trace element.

 

[Christoph]

Hello R2R-Reefers,

i´d just like to briefly inform that the Oceamo seawater analysis sampling kits are now available (for the first time in the US) via our partners at aquabiomics.com!

Also if i can help with your questions regarding lab testing, ICP-OES and other methodologies i´m happy to help here in the forum, just tag me along

All the best,
Christoph