octopus envy

[chipmunkofdoom2]

This guy was Davy Jones (RIP), identified as O. hummelincki by the folks over at Tonmo. He was pretty short-lived, only a few months. I don't know how old he was when I got him.

In this last picture, he's hidden pretty well. Look toward the middle center of the rocks:

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Hi Daniel,
I think the idea "I think they are one of the smartest animals on the planet" is incompatible with the idea "I want to keep one in in a box in my living room". And if it isn't it should be. This is one of those weird fine ethical points that I like to poke at, and I am writing an article about it, so feel free to ignore me.
They sure do seem smart, but so do pigs.
I think I think that there are very few people that should keep these animals, not on my ethics, but on theirs. No one would keep a dog in a box for its whole life, can it be fair to do that to an octopus?
I don't think I think they are that smart, but they sure seem smart.
EDIT - different species and behaviors will yield different ethical responses, which makes me think it may be mostly anthropomorphism

Thanks for your thoughts on this topic. This would be a great discussion point for the Skimmate podcast.

What are your thoughts on keeping animals in aquaria that are often eaten for food? You and Terence touched on this a bit in the Skimmate podcast. It seems that a lot of people are okay with taking an animal from the ocean to eat it, but putting that same animal in an aquarium is not okay to a lot of people. The former guarantees the almost immediate demise of the animal. The latter is "cruel," despite the fact that the animal is still alive.

The large chain grocery store near me sells 6 and 12 packs of nearly whole frozen octopus. While a lot of people seem mystified by the intelligence of octopuses, a significant number of people appear to have no qualms eating octopuses. It could be that there just isn't a lot of overlap between the ceph-eaters and the folks posting in this thread that octopuses are too intelligent to keep in captivity. Still, I feel I'm missing something.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[Thales]

Thanks for your thoughts on this topic. This would be a great discussion point for the Skimmate podcast.

What are your thoughts on keeping animals in aquaria that are often eaten for food? You and Terence touched on this a bit in the Skimmate podcast. It seems that a lot of people are okay with taking an animal from the ocean to eat it, but putting that same animal in an aquarium is not okay to a lot of people. The former guarantees the almost immediate demise of the animal. The latter is "cruel," despite the fact that the animal is still alive.

I was gonna type a whole thing out, but it sounded familiar and I realized I wrote an article about it!

Skeptical Reefkeeping 7: A look at Ethics

By Richard Ross Ethical discussion about almost every area of reefkeeping has been a part of the hobby for as long as the hobby has existed - What size tank

reefs.com

[/quote]The large chain grocery store near me sells 6 and 12 packs of nearly whole frozen octopus. While a lot of people seem mystified by the intelligence of octopuses, a significant number of people appear to have no qualms eating octopuses. It could be that there just isn't a lot of overlap between the ceph-eaters and the folks posting in this thread that octopuses are too intelligent to keep in captivity. Still, I feel I'm missing something.[/quote]


Can you expand a bit more? I am not sure I am understanding what you feel you may be missing.
Thanks!

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Can you expand a bit more? I am not sure I am understanding what you feel you may be missing.
Thanks!

I'm not misunderstanding anything you have discussed. I guess what I'm having a hard time with is understanding the willingness with which some people dismiss certain practices while taking issue with others that are not very different fundamentally.

I think you summed it up best in another one of your articles:

Recreational fishing is a favorite example of mine that I like to bring up when the Hawaiian Aquarium collecting legalization comes up. Collecting live fish for the aquarium trade is portrayed as bad, while recreational fishing that kills animals is, if not portrayed as good, simply accepted as something not to be questioned.

I have a hard time understanding people and their motivations sometimes, and I guess this is just one of those things. For some people, I guess taking fish from the ocean for a pet is just not okay, despite all the other food fishing that goes on. Thanks for the discussion and great articles. Sorry to derail the thread folks.

 

[Thomashtom]

Here you go!!! Briearus! Had him since he was a baby! Thanks

 

[Thales]

This is a vid made a few years ago, but shows what I was doing in my secret home lab

 

[xxkenny90xx]

What are your thoughts on keeping animals in aquaria that are often eaten for food? You and Terence touched on this a bit in the Skimmate podcast. It seems that a lot of people are okay with taking an animal from the ocean to eat it, but putting that same animal in an aquarium is not okay to a lot of people. The former guarantees the almost immediate demise of the animal. The latter is "cruel," despite the fact that the animal is still alive.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

The other day the wife and I boiled 5 Dungeness crabs alive for dinner while our marine giant hermit crab tank sat behind us and he watched the whole thing. Awkward....

 

[Thomashtom]

This is a could years ago, but shows what I was doing in my secret home lab

That’s awesome!!!!

 

[|Tom the Bomb|]

what do you feed them? what is the tank min. are they in a drilled tank? how do you keep them from escaping?

ur best and easiest choice is a coralife 32G biocue, AIO filter so thers no gaps in lid to escape while providing adequate and compact filtration the tank is also compact with a tight fitting heavy lid that goes all aroud #1 tank for octos

 

[Thomashtom]

ur best and easiest choice is a coralife 32G biocue, AIO filter so thers no gaps in lid to escape while providing adequate and compact filtration the tank is also compact with a tight fitting heavy lid that goes all aroud #1 tank for octos

For a small octopus! Go on Tonmo.com for helpful info on octopus. You need to have an well established tank!!!

 

[cd459]

I’ve seen various octopus species at my LFS, and I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a customer buying one.

 

[|Tom the Bomb|]

For a small octopus! Go on Tonmo.com for helpful info on octopus. You need to have an well established tank!!!

yes, ik for smaller species only they do need special care like their tank needs to have lots of hiding spaces and places for it to explore like (mixed sand bed, lots of live rock forming multiple rock structures that have like archways, caves for it to hide, tunnels etc. and perching spots to allow the octo to explore and every some feedings its best to feed live like small live feeder fish, live fiddler crabs or shrimp etc. this is to provide stimulation by allowing it to hunt it needs other forms of stimulation too