On the verge of quitting..

[AXBROWN]

^^this all the way, even down to the comment about how you'd approach a problem in medicine. You could have something failing in equipment and leeching toxic metals. I def agree that an ICP test is warranted if the alternative is you quit and sell everything.

Also, haven't made it to the end of the thread yet, but had anyone mentioned the potential for stray voltage coming from some equipment? It does happen and can be hard to detect and diagnose.

You and I had the same thought at the same time

 

[ceaver]

You and I had the same thought at the same time

Lol we did, and it is a thing! Def something to be ruled out

 

[Nonya]

Also, haven't made it to the end of the thread yet, but had anyone mentioned the potential for stray voltage coming from some equipment? It does happen and can be hard to detect and diagnose.

Yes, they have.

 

[SwiftStorm]

I had a few mysterious deaths a while ago, and it was my salinity. I was unaware, but the refractometer had lost it's correct setting. I would do a water change with too much salinity every week. I would also check the tank and think, maybe it can come up just a bit because it was showing 1.025. After a couple months and some deaths, my salinity was at 1.035. My OG clown was the last to go when I realised this. So stupid on my part. Just put some fresh RO on refractometer to reset 0. Recheck tank. I had to remove a bunch of saltwater from the tank and replace with RO over the next couple of days. LFS should also check water sample to be sure.

Good luck and look for simple solutions

 

[Nonya]

I had a few mysterious deaths a while ago, and it was my salinity. I was unaware, but the refractometer had lost it's correct setting. I would do a water change with too much salinity every week. I would also check the tank and think, maybe it can come up just a bit because it was showing 1.025. After a couple months and some deaths, my salinity was at 1.035. My OG clown was the last to go when I realised this. So stupid on my part. Just put some fresh RO on refractometer to reset 0. Recheck tank. I had to remove a bunch of saltwater from the tank and replace with RO over the next couple of days. LFS should also check water sample to be sure.

Good luck and look for simple solutions

Yeow!

 

[Rick's Reviews]

Hello everyone. I have had my tank up and running for 1.5 yrs now. I encountered every possible issue and algae known to man in these 18 months. However, what really gets to me is when I lose a coral or fish for no obvious reason. It all started with a firefish that I had for a few months then boom, no where to be seen. I asked people and they said it might be the odd death for no specific reason. So i moved on. After that I got a bangai cardinal, disappeared on its 3rd day DESPITE looking healthy and eating. But again, i chucked it off to random death. Months later, I bought 3 bangai cardinals. They were doing good for a month or two when one of them disappeared. A week later, i found a second one laying half dead on the rocks getting eaten by aiptasia. 2 weeks later i lose my fire shrimp. A week later (today), i find my very expensive designer clownfish dead on the sandbed. The same clownfish that was eating yesterday and Ive had for 1.5 yrs. That being said, it did look "drowsy" yesterday but I fed it and it ate normally.

You can not tell me that all of these back to back deaths are random. Something is wrong in this tank and frankly at this point I want to sell everything and move on because I cannot afford to keep losing stuff like this. I do not have ich or any other parasite. So WHAT is killing everything in my tank? If i do not find a solution to this I am afraid I will have to sell it all and move on.
NOTE: I used dry rock and dry sand. Sometimes when the light is off i hear a clicking or tapping noise from the tank, as if I am tapping the glass.

Tank is 34 gals with a diy fuge. I feed frozen most days. I have a bad outbreak of bubble algae and even aiptasia. Ive been busy with my medical school finals so I havent had time to do a wc for about a month.

Here are some pictures of the clown:

Simple answer is yes, if your too busy in your life then this is not right for you, focus on your life and sell off/give away everything that's a distraction?

If you can not keep a fish alive/relax and enjoy the hobby then best to give it up, it pains me to say it but best to free up the mind and distractions , just a thought

 

[Nonya]

Simple answer is yes, if your too busy in your life then this is not right for you, focus on your life and sell off/give away everything that's a distraction?

If you can not keep a fish alive/relax and enjoy the hobby then best to give it up, it pains me to say it but best to free up the mind and distractions , just a thought

And save some wild caught fish in the meantime?

 

[Rick's Reviews]

And save some wild caught fish in the meantime?

Or save at least 1 life

 

[BirdFish5000]

Trust me i am not buying anything else lol. I am contemplating posting the tank to be sold and cutting my losses. I cant afford to keep losing livestock for no reason like this.

It isn't "no reason". There is a reason. You just haven't found it, or you don't want to acknowledge; for example with your insistance that it isn't disease.

 

[maleks.reef]

Nitrates are not the only parameter that affects fish health.
What is your ammonia? Lot of fish deaths and you mentioned few water changes. What's your salinity at specifically today? Are you running carbon?
Clicking could be pistol shrimp.
Also rule out aggression for some deaths. Midas get a bit nippy in smaller quarters. Bangaii can be jerks when they start getting bigger. Mine can be pushy and that's in a 50g cube.

Just some suggestions - not necessarily saying it's any of these things-just curious of your thoughts.

I assure you I have no ammonia in my tank. Salinity is around 1.025. I say around because hannah's calibration fluid has been out for some time now where I live so I had to calibrate using tank water when doing WCs. I used to run carbon up until 1 month ago because it finished. I dont think it is a pistol since i started wit hdry everything and because the noise comes in two or threes not ones. The midas was nippy with the clown but all of the losses Ive had before that, i didnt have the midas yet. All of the bangai i ever got were small. So as you can see, it is frustrating. Thank you for the ideas though.

 

[maleks.reef]

It's disease in the tank. Fish adapted immune system was holding it off but some tank stresses let the disease take advantage. The OP said he has been busy and tank upkeep and water testing has not been optimal. Parameters are probably off a bit which stressed the fish and weakened their immune system enough to let the existing disease in the tank take hold. Lot of reefers do disease management with some success but if something in the rank causes fish stress then the disease takes advantage again with weakened immune systems. OP can get optimal conditions back again and remaining fish should be ok if their immune system holds. Adding new fish would be challenging because of shipping stress and new tank environment stress so they would be open to the disease in the tank.

The deaths i have had have being mysteriously going on for about a year now and the tank has been "neglected" for only the past 4 weeks or so.

 

[maleks.reef]

Cardinals will kill each other, so that’s a likely bet for at least one of them.
Did all fish look as thin as the clown when dying? That’s indicative of the fish wasting away from the inside, usually due to an internal parasite. Was there any white stringy poo or loss of appetite?
I agree that feeding bloodworms as anything more than a treat isn’t a good idea. They are very high in protein and very fattening.
I doubt it’s a mantis - finding the bodies and without any damage makes one very unlikely.

The fish look fine, build wise. The clown was always the one that ate the most. It only looked so skinny after it died which is weird. Two days ago it looked fine and not exactly skinny. Is there anyway i can rule out that it was a parasite? Do parasites affect multiple fish in the tank and can stay "dormant" so to speak for so long?

 

[maleks.reef]

I think I see the problem. I think you need to educate yourself on SW aquariums, and there are a ton of resources out there. Rather than saying you don't know why your fish are dying "for no obvious reason", I'm sure there's a good reason. Saying "As for parameters I haven't tested in a while" should never come with a request for help. Not knowing your salinity, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, pH, salinity, etc., throwing out your skimmer, and claiming "fish should not be affected" says much. Are you using municipal (chlorinated) tap water? You also don't mention water changes to export organics. You can't just assume that all it takes is some salt mix and water for things to be alright.

Ive been doing this for over 5 years now. There is not a resource out there that I have not consumed prior to starting this tank. Additionally, I haven't tested my parameters RECENTLY. In other words, during the time when i lost the other fish, the tank was doing very good and nothing was out of the norm. Parameters were always ok, sometimes lacking on the alk and calcium since i do not dose but I am sure a bit of low alk would not kill fish. The max i had were 6 fish, all of which on the smaller side, in a 34 gal tank with a fuge and a ton of rocks and even 4 year old media. Also, I havent been able to test for salinity for the past 2 months because of the shortage of calibration fluid here, i have had this issue long before I ran out of calibration fluid. I mentioned that I do WCs every 2 weeks sometimes every month but I have not done one in a little bit over 4 weeks because Ive been busy. Of course there is a reason for all of these deaths. I never said it is paranormal. I just said that I cant seem to locate the issue since it almost random the way they day. Some disappear, some show up as skeletons, one bangai drifted into an aiptasia and was half eaten, and some show up dead and preserved.

 

[maleks.reef]

1. Don’t quit. But if you do, don’t sell your stuff. You’ll be back down the road. (I made mistake years ago, sucks buying stuff again)

2. Check parameters & Check Equipment. To make a diagnosis you need data. Even if you don’t think it’s relevant—more data is better. Same applies in medicine—you can’t make a diagnosis without data. Maybe consider sending’s ICP test, but definitely do the basic hobbyist tests.

3. Investigate that tapping noise. Mantis shrimp was the first thing I thought of with “missing fish” but sounds unlikely with dry rock. Faulty equipment? Stray voltage in the tank? You found it relevant to mention this, but you haven’t discovered the cause. That along with skipping the testing and water changes is a fundamental error in your philosophy of reefing in my opinion, particularly when you’ve been having deaths. You could try moving out each piece of rock into a saltwater bucket to isolate if the tapping noise is equipment or invertebrate.

4. You mention “no sign of disease,” but I’m sorry that’s wrong. You have multiple deaths with undetermined cause. That’s a sign of disease.

5. Would a local fish store or hobbyist take your fish to QT them for you or hold them while you leave the tank empty to rule out disease? Make sure they are aware of the issues so you don’t sabotage someone else’s tank.

6. Don’t buy any new inhabitant until you know what’s going on. If for some reason you lose more, let tank sit fallow if you really can’t QT right now.

There are a lot of people in this thread who have way more experience than I giving feedback and suggestions—listen to them. You need a systematic approach to diagnosis of your problem, just like the profession your training to be in.

Thanks for the advice, i appreciate it. I just want to point out that when i say no sign of disease I meant signs and symptoms, other than death that is. If i had no fish left I would gladly go fallow for an extended period of time, but I have 3 left. Taking them out and putting in a separate tank and treating them is a huge hassle, that is why I want to be at least pretty sure that it indeed is disease. Many people suggested that it is disease, but what kind? Maybe I do not need to go fallow? Maybe it is something i can treat in tank without setting up a QT. I think it is important to at least have a few diseases in mind before jumping into going fallow because I know that no one will take 3 possibly sick fish and QT for me, so I would have to do it myself.

 

[Lavey29]

The deaths i have had have being mysteriously going on for about a year now and the tank has been "neglected" for only the past 4 weeks or so.

I read the whole thread again. No where in here have you posted your complete current parameters from recent tests?

You say the fish all die at night and you have no skimmer. That suggests possibly an 02 problem or PH drop. There is less available 02 at night in the tank and no skimmer compounds that also. If we add in that you have been neglecting upkeep on the tank its most like well off in parameters causing fish stress and invert stress too. Lack of 02 overnight may then lead to unexpected fish death in the tank.

 

[maleks.reef]

I read the whole thread again. No where in here have you posted your complete current parameters from recent tests?

You say the fish all die at night and you have no skimmer. That suggests possibly an 02 problem or PH drop. There is less available 02 at night in the tank and no skimmer compounds that also. If we add in that you have been neglecting upkeep on the tank its most like well off in parameters causing fish stress and invert stress too. Lack of 02 overnight may then lead to unexpected fish death in the tank.

The skimmer died only a month ago. I have lost fish prior to the removal of the skimmer. I have crazy surface agitation and it is hot where I live, so the AC is almost always on. Meaning no central heating and buildup of CO2 in the room. Also, the fish never showed signs of O2 deprivation like swimming to the surface and such.

 

[maleks.reef]

Not all disease shows signs like white spots or such. Sometimes fish just die. There is also internal problems like uronema. Not all uronema shows lesions. Instead it just kills them from the inside.

Not all fish will die or get as sick. Some fish even survive tank wipe outs of velvet and appear just fine but pass the disease to new fish added.

I feel like so many people quit this hobby because of fish death. QT is on the verge of becoming and absolute necessity to those new in the hobby (I know old tanks/old salts don't always have the issue with new fish but new tanks often do).

Yeah I am beginning to think that it might indeed be disease. I wish there was a way to know for sure..

 

[maleks.reef]

There is a really easy diy 35 ppt (1.026) salinity calibration fluid you can make at home, per Randy Holmes-Farley recipe. Search for it on here, it's easy to find. I am a bit skeptical of your approach to managing salinity as described here, no offense, and recommend you definitely have a look at it

Trust me I do not like my approach either lol, but it is either that or no WCs for me. I will check out the recipe thank you! I should also be getting a bunch of calibration packets within the next few weeks, hopefully.

 

[maleks.reef]

Hey, sorry for the losses. I had a thought, have you checked for any stray voltage in your tank? Perhaps the clicking sound you are hearing is something electrical? Just an idea.

I had a powerhead that was shorting in my tank and I was losing fish here and there and found it to be the cause. Now I always use a ground probe in my tanks just in case.

Interesting point. I will see if I have anything at home that I can use to check stray voltage. To be fair, the return pump is at least 3-4 years old. I only have 3 pieces of equipment in my tank, the heater, return and wavemaker.

 

[Spare time]

Why would I fallow and quarantine if there is no sign of disease? Also, if i had some sort of disease then wouldn't I lose ALL my fish within a very short time span?

The whole point of a quarantine is to stop disease before it enters. Similar toi why people are put into quarantine if someone they have been in contact with has a serious disease. Its similar to a vaccine too. You don't vaccinate someone when they get the disease, you do it before hand as a preventative. And yes some diseases can wipe a tank almost overnight (velvet).