Online fish order 50% dead now...other half doomed?

[DavidinGA]

I've been out of the hobby for a few years now and just got back in to find times have changed. Livestock prices are crazy and it seems parasites are more rampant than ever.

I'll leave out where I bought these fish from since it's not really relevant, but it's one of the "big" names you'd think of if you were going to order fish online. This is my 2nd order through the site. The first order I got a powder blue tang, flame angel, yellow coris, and canary blenny. That first order the flame was doa, but everything else was fat and super healthy. Left them all in an observation setup for 4 weeks and zero issues.


The 2nd online order I'm now dealing with...

The shipment arrived Tuesday 4-12 and I had another flame angel, emperor angel (sm juv), naso tang (sm), maroon clown (med), purple dottyback (free). Everyone came in looking pretty healthy.

4-13 maroon clown has a very very slight white fuzz on the top of it's head/body
4-14 maroon clown fuzz remains
4-14 emperor is showing what appears to be Lymphocystis near the middle of it's body on one side. Not eating great.
4-14 maroon clown fuzz remains.
4-15 am notice the flame angel showing some pale coloration around it's mouth and it's started to hide a bit and increased respiration.
4-15 did a fw dip on flame - no flukes, no improvement
4-15 maroon clown fuzz disappearing a bit
4-16 pm Flame is dead
4-17 maroon clown fuzz gone now
4-17 emperor still not eating very well. Increased respiration. lymphocystis remains the same size/location, nothing new
4-18 emperor dead
4-18 dottyback now showing apparent lesions on side of its body - bacteria infection? (see pic) or attacked by maroon?
4-19 dottyback looks a bit worse. still eating great. normal respiration
4-20 can't find dottyback anywhere
4-21 still can't find dottyback even after tearing tank apart....? dead? jumped out? dunno
4-22 Marron and naso both eating like hogs and neither show any symptoms. Naso has never shown any issues ever so far.

Dottyback - gram negative bacteria infection or wound from the maroon? I've never seen any aggression from the maroon clown, but it's a maroon clown so I can't say it didn't go after the dottyback...thoughts?

Do you think the flame and emperor both died of the same bacteria infection the dotty has/had (if it wasn't injuries from the maroon)? Or maybe velvet in gills without the typical external visible infestation?

Thoughts on the maroon and naso that both seem completely fine? If this were a gram negative bacteria issue they should both be dead shortly, right? If its velvet I can understand them possibly making it through (for now)...right?

Thoughts?

fwiw...
Been reefing since 1998
observation tank setup for about 2 months now
29g tank
20-30lbs (mix of newer and older 5+ yr old live rock)
ammonia badge
no substrate
hob filter and floss
1.019 salinity matching arrival levels
I don't test other parameters with that much liverock and so little livestock
no meds in the system



Thanks
David

 

[LeftyReefer]

If these fish have white spots/fuzz, they probably have parasites, not bacterial infections.
Do you have copper? sounds like they need copper treatment. But treatment can't be certain without proper ID of the problem. Can you post more pics, in bright white lighting? (not overly blue)
Do you have a QT tank to give them meds? Most meds are not reef safe, so treating in your main display tank is usually not done.

 

[DavidinGA]

If these fish have white spots/fuzz, they probably have parasites, not bacterial infections.
Do you have copper? sounds like they need copper treatment. But treatment can't be certain without proper ID of the problem. Can you post more pics, in bright white lighting? (not overly blue)
Do you have a QT tank to give them meds? Most meds are not reef safe, so treating in your main display tank is usually not done.

Only the emperor angel has ever had a single white spot/fuzz.

They are in a qt/observation tank.

 

[LeftyReefer]

And a fuzzy clown too?

when I hear fuzzy fish, I think brook or maybe velvet.

And two other fish have already died in this batch too?

 

[DavidinGA]

And a fuzzy clown too?

when I hear fuzzy fish, I think brook or maybe velvet.

And two other fish have already died in this batch too?

The clown had a very very slight white fuzz on the top of it's head for a couple days; never more than that.

The two that have died were angels and neither showed any fuzz, but velvet can kill without any external symptoms I'm told.

 

[Oldreefer44]

What size tank?
How long has the tank been set up?
Live rock or dry rock?
What are the actual parameters?
Picture of entire tank?

 

[Dave1993]

You should name and shame for sending you clearly diseased fish

 

[DavidinGA]

What size tank?
29g

How long has the tank been set up?
2 months (its an qt tank not my dt)

Live rock or dry rock?
LR

What are the actual parameters?
1.019
I don't test anything else with so much LR and so little livestock

Picture of entire tank?
Dont' have one with me

 

[LeftyReefer]

You should name and shame for sending you clearly diseased fish

Unnecessary. IMHO, Every fish you buy should be expected to need QT, unless buying fully quarantined fish obviously.

 

[Dave1993]

Unnecessary. IMHO, Every fish you buy should be expected to need QT, unless buying fully quarantined fish obviously.

Here in the uk i would demand my money back if i got a diseased fish i don't QT but the standards in the uk seem much better than in america seems fish stores dont give a **** in america

 

[Oldreefer44]

Just my opinion but there could be so much more to the situation that cannot be known without water testing. Could be that something is off causing the fish to be stressed making them more vulnerable to disease etc. I have a very well established tank and wouldnt consider not testing regularly.

 

[DavidinGA]

Here in the uk i would demand my money back if i got a diseased fish i don't QT but the standards in the uk seem much better than in america seems fish stores dont give a **** in america

I am getting my money back; I'd be in another state of mind if this was just money down the drain!

 

[LeftyReefer]

The red spot on the dottyback could also be uronema, but hard to tell from the pic.
Which would also explain it being dead/gone within a day or so after noticing the red spot. Once a fish with uronema develops a red sore on it's body, its usually dead soon after.

Hard to say at this point.

 

[DavidinGA]

Also, I forgot to add another piece to the story fwiw...

Prior to the flame angel dying I had kept the maroon clown inside a critter cage to limit any aggression he might show towards the flame. So the flames death wasn't due to aggression from the maroon.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The clown had a very very slight white fuzz on the top of it's head for a couple days; never more than that.

The two that have died were angels and neither showed any fuzz, but velvet can kill without any external symptoms I'm told.

Sorry to hear about these troubles.

Velvet often does not show any spots at all, even up to the point of death, but there is always one clear symptom; rapid breathing. If the fish were breathing faster than 140 gill beats per minute, and then died, it is often velvet that is the root cause.

What I see a lot of is drop shipping from the LA Wholesalers. You place an order, and then the order is sent to the big wholesaler and they ship the fish to you. These fish are sometimes "double bounced" - that is, they come in from overseas and then are shipped the next day. Hobbyists almost always use overnight carriers, and shipping by those means the box time is going to be 30+ hours. You need to acclimate fish shipped that way very carefully due to ammonia issues....not sure if you are aware, but as you acclimate them, the pH rises faster than the ammonia is being diluted, and the ammonia becomes more toxic, harming the fish.

You might consider buying pre-quarantined fish. They cost more, but your losses will be lower.

Jay

 

[DavidinGA]

Saturday 4-30-22

Naso and Maroon still 100% healthy in the observation tank.

Purple dottyback still MIA. Still can't find him anywhere. Super secure lid so I'm confident he didn't jump and there is nothing in the tank to eat the corpse so he must be wedged inside a rock dead/alive somewhere in there.

Still not sure what killed the flame and emperor angels. It seems that if this were velvet having half the fist survive is too high of a survival rate for velvet in my experience.

Will probably go another 2 weeks of observation and then decide what to do with the living....

 

[DavidinGA]

5-10

Naso and Maroon still look and act 100% healthy.


Thoughts?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

5-10

Naso and Maroon still look and act 100% healthy.


Thoughts?

IDK - have you treated them with anything yet? I never use just observational quarantine, especially when there was relatively recent unexplained fish loss.
Jay

 

[DavidinGA]

IDK - have you treated them with anything yet? I never use just observational quarantine, especially when there was relatively recent unexplained fish loss.
Jay

I haven't treated with anything, just observation thus far.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I haven't treated with anything, just observation thus far.

Well, I would run them and any new fish through a comprehensive, proactive quarantine process. There is an outlined process at the top of the fish disease forum (I’m on my phone and can’t link it for you - sorry).
Jay