online mess of coppersafe dosing advice

[somebloke]

After trying hard to draw a conclusion on Mardel Coppersafe dosing from online sources, I've concluded that the information varies significantly. This is my first time dosing copper and I'm not sure I have much confidence in either the information online or the API test kit.

What I do know with confidence is that I have 40 gallons of water in my hospital tank (on the basis of a conversion from cubic inches to gallons).

Is there anyone who has successfully used Coppersafe enough to state with confidence how many ml/gallon to dose? I'll still test empirically with the API kit, but I'd like to go into this with an accurate idea of how much I should administer based on calculated values.

I'd like to target 1.75 ppm.

Help please!!!!

 

[puffy127]

Dosing Coppersafe at 1.63mL/gal will achieve 1.5 ppm, 1.9mL/gal = 1.75 ppm, and 2.17mL/gal = 2.0 ppm.

I would just make life easy on yourself and dose 2mL/gal, which will land you somewhere between 1.75-2.0 ppm (therapeutic range).

 

[Humblefish]

^^ This

Plus, more info here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/proper-dosing-of-coppersafe.309726/

 

[somebloke]

^^ This

Plus, more info here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/proper-dosing-of-coppersafe.309726/

Thank you but now I'm chuckling because that topic itself has information all over the map and a fair number of people just throwing up their arms and declaring that no one really knows.

The sheer range of anecdotal evidence in this hobby is seriously making me bonkers.

 

[HotRocks]

If you have recently purchased coppersafe, I would test daily as you dose. I have recently incurred a lot of issues with the product causing bacterial blooms. I also don't know if the batch I got had a stronger concentration or if it was just bad all together or what, but I dosed what should have gotten me to 1.75-2.0ppm, and ended up way higher than that and some serious fish loss in QT. Good Luck!

 

[somebloke]

If you have recently purchased coppersafe, I would test daily as you dose. I have recently incurred a lot of issues with the product causing bacterial blooms. I also don't know if the batch I got had a stronger concentration or if it was just bad all together or what, but I dosed what should have gotten me to 1.75-2.0ppm, and ended up way higher than that and some serious fish loss in QT. Good Luck!

The bottle I have has an expiration of 4/2019. If I may ask, what is/was yours?

So far I've dosed 50 ml in 40 gallons of water over the last 4 days, so 1.25 ml per gallon. My API test shows somewhere between 1.0 ppm and 2.0 ppm, much closer to 2.0 ppm. This seems consistent with your results if you dosed 2.17 ml per gallon and had high copper and fatalities.

If both the API test result and the popular recommondation of 2.17 ml/g to reach 2.0 ppm are accurate, it means that Mardel either produces a wildly inconsistent product or intentionally changed their concentration.

But then a lot of people express their doubts about the accuracy of the API test.

What to do? This is about enough to make me back out and change to Cupramine. Or spend $75 dollars or so on a higher quality test kit and purely empirical approach.

 

[HotRocks]

The bottle I have has an expiration of 4/2019. If I may ask, what is/was yours?

So far I've dosed 50 ml in 40 gallons of water over the last 4 days, so 1.25 ml per gallon. My API test shows somewhere between 1.0 ppm and 2.0 ppm, much closer to 2.0 ppm. This seems consistent with your results if you dosed 2.17 ml per gallon and had high copper and fatalities.

If both the API test result and the popular recommondation of 2.17 ml/g to reach 2.0 ppm are accurate, it means that Mardel either produces a wildly inconsistent product or intentionally changed their concentration.

But then a lot of people express their doubts about the accuracy of the API test.

What to do? This is about enough to make me back out and change to Cupramine. Or spend $75 dollars or so on a higher quality test kit and purely empirical approach.

I think we are on to something here. @Humblefish is looking in to copper power. I just lost basically my whole batch of fish. I would concentrate less on expiration date but the batch #. Here is the bottle I used and just had the issue. I have another bottle unopened that has different expiration date but same batch #.
@4FordFamily

 

[HotRocks]

The bottle I have has an expiration of 4/2019. If I may ask, what is/was yours?

So far I've dosed 50 ml in 40 gallons of water over the last 4 days, so 1.25 ml per gallon. My API test shows somewhere between 1.0 ppm and 2.0 ppm, much closer to 2.0 ppm. This seems consistent with your results if you dosed 2.17 ml per gallon and had high copper and fatalities.

If both the API test result and the popular recommondation of 2.17 ml/g to reach 2.0 ppm are accurate, it means that Mardel either produces a wildly inconsistent product or intentionally changed their concentration.

But then a lot of people express their doubts about the accuracy of the API test.

What to do? This is about enough to make me back out and change to Cupramine. Or spend $75 dollars or so on a higher quality test kit and purely empirical approach.

In the past I never had an issue with API test. I truly believe this is a coppersafe issue or they have changed the concentration.

 

[somebloke]

My bottle is a different batch number (phone battery is dead so no photo right now). That could mean a number of things I suppose.

Best case scenario IMO - they adjusted their formula so that the recommended dose produces a truly therapeutic level of copper. In that case a notification would have been nice but I'm not sure how they would have communicated it.

Interested to see results on Copper Power. Gotta hand it to humblefish and others who fight the good fight in the face of all-to-often poor performance and even straight up disinformation by vendors ("natural" remedies and such). I'm new to the hobby, just my early impression.

 

[HotRocks]

My bottle is a different batch number (phone battery is dead so no photo right now). That could mean a number of things I suppose.

Best case scenario IMO - they adjusted their formula so that the recommended dose produces a truly therapeutic level of copper. In that case a notification would have been nice but I'm not sure how they would have communicated it.

Agreed. I'm going to test dose 1 gallon of new saltwater and test. I will let you know the outcome.

 

[Big G]

Didn't see anyone mention this, so I'm just checking here regards the API Copper Test Kit. When you are reading the color, are you holding the test tube just a bit above the white card, in a brightly lit room or natural light? The tube should not be resting on the card surface.

 

[4FordFamily]

We read it from the top of the vial

 

[somebloke]

Didn't see anyone mention this, so I'm just checking here regards the API Copper Test Kit. When you are reading the color, are you holding the test tube just a bit above the white card, in a brightly lit room or natural light? The tube should not be resting on the card surface.

Thanks Big G. The instructions do say "over" My initial impression (and from peeking at a dictionary) is that the word "over" is ambiguous - but I do lean towards your interpretation. Tomorrow I will test with it raised and not raised and look at the practical difference.

 

[HotRocks]

Agreed. I'm going to test dose 1 gallon of new saltwater and test. I will let you know the outcome.

You guys tell me what you think. 1.25ml measured with a syringe. For 1 gallon of fresh saltwater to match dosing instructions on bottle. Looks like 2.0 to me. This is a 1/2" or so above the card @Big G (best I could do while holding one handed taking photo). I can also tell you photo appears darker than in person.

 

[HotRocks]

It's definitely far darker than the 1.16-1.17 believed to match the dosage instructions either way.

 

[Big G]

Thanks Big G. The instructions do say "over" My initial impression (and from peeking at a dictionary) is that the word "over" is ambiguous - but I do lean towards your interpretation. Tomorrow I will test with it raised and not raised and look at the practical difference.

Not a whole lot of standards through the industry. For example, Salifert test kits tell you explicitly to hold the plastic test container directly against the white card whether you are testing from above (high concentrations) or from the side (low concentrations) of the container.

Another hint is to squint your eyes slightly when comparing the colors. My wife is an artists who showed me that method she uses when painting and drawing. It really helped me. Her ability to "see" the color ranges on these tests is amazing.

 

[Big G]

You guys tell me what you think. 1.25ml measured with a syringe. For 1 gallon of fresh saltwater to match dosing instructions on bottle. Looks like 2.0 to me. This is a 1/2" or so above the card @Big G (best I could do while holding one handed taking photo). I can also tell you photo appears darker than in person.

Needs to be done in a very brightly lit room or outside in natural light (the best).

 

[4FordFamily]

@HotRockTarBaby i have a Salifert Copper test kit on my medicine rack in the basement if you’d like to compare.

 

[cmcoker]

I emailed API a week or so ago for clarification on where to hold tube for the copper test.
Response was:

"Thank you for inquiring at API. You do not touch the card to the test tube. Hold above the card.


Thank you,
Amy K.
Consumer Relations Technician
MARS fishcare"

 

[somebloke]

I emailed API a week or so ago for clarification on where to hold tube for the copper test.
Response was:

"Thank you for inquiring at API. You do not touch the card to the test tube. Hold above the card.


Thank you,
Amy K.
Consumer Relations Technician
MARS fishcare"

Sweet, thanks. I'm going to retest tonight with that approach.