Ozone, DOC, GAC

[djf91]

What experiments exactly? The video is over an hour long.

Here is Forest Rowher’s talk about the studies he did on algae, coral, DOC.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27572833/
The proposed mechanism for this competitive advantage is the DDAM positive feedback loop (dissolved organic carbon (DOC), disease, algae, microorganism), where DOC released by ungrazed fleshy algae supports copiotrophic, potentially pathogenic bacterial communities, ultimately harming corals and maintaining algal competitive dominance.

 

[backbayreef]

It is an unquestionable aesthetic effect to the viewer that ozone clears the water.

But is that a benefit to organisms that are filter feeders?

From what I read, Ozone may be detrimental to filter feeders (and livestock) if overdosed without guardrails. By keeping ORP under 450mV and running GAC (replaced every ~3 weeks) from the reactor's effluent, risk is reduced. I'm currently doing both.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The proposed mechanism for this competitive advantage is the DDAM positive feedback loop (dissolved organic carbon (DOC), disease, algae, microorganism), where DOC released by ungrazed fleshy algae supports copiotrophic, potentially pathogenic bacterial communities, ultimately harming corals and maintaining algal competitive dominance.

OK, I've read that statement too. Was there an actual experiment cited by Julian?

There are lots of DOC experiments, and since nearly all bacteria consume DOC, it is not unexpected that it impacts the microbiome.

It may well be true that some organics deter corals relative to other organisms such as algae, but there are several critical issues that relate to reefers as opposed to wild reefs:

1. If we have clean up crews that control algae, does that relative boosting of algae matter significantly in a reef tank?

2. Is the DOC effect specific to certain organics, or to generalized DOC? If specific, then it's important to know if those specific DOC are elevated in any individual reef tank, and/or whether control means such as GAC actually alter them.

3. If you do not seem to have apparent bacterial infection issues in corals, is the mere presence of a potentially pathogenic microorganism problematic enough to warrant changing husbandry practices?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

One way to think of DOC effects is like pH effects, IMO. This is an analogy, not a quantitative comparison, but...

If we assume that high alkalinity and high pH boost hard corals relative to algae (which I would), then why does not every reefer do it?

Many reasons from not wanting highest growth or not caring much about growth to not being readily able to get to high pH/high alk.

Might not the effects of DOC follow a similar pattern, where it may be an effect some care about and want to pursue, to others who cannot or do not want to make the needed changes?

 

[mmorrison55]

I'm running an Avast Mutiny 2.0 in a 450gal tank, 24/7 at 30%. I've swapped out the Avast GAC canister with the GEO for easier media replacement. A few observations:
1. Water is crystal clear!
2. ORP bounces between 410 - 425 mV and will be shut down at 450 mV

I can't comment on DOC and disease prevention, I'm doing this for water clarity and love it!

Ive got the avastamrine as well and just changed my carbon for the 1st time and if there is one downside to it, it’s the maintenance. So I would be curious which geos reef canister you ended up going with.

Any photos would be a bonus! Thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

FWIW, I use GAC (ROX 0.8) in the mesh bag that Tunze supplies along with the Tunze skimmer I use. It attaches to the skimmer outflow.

I do believe that exporting organics is desirable to keep the water from getting too yellow or allowing toxins to accumulate. :)

 

[backbayreef]

Ive got the avastamrine as well and just changed my carbon for the 1st time and if there is one downside to it, it’s the maintenance. So I would be curious which geos reef canister you ended up going with.

Any photos would be a bonus! Thanks

Here’s a reference in my build thread
Post in thread 'Bakbay's 450g - Final Upgrade?'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bakbays-450g-final-upgrade.1066683/post-13609982

You don’t need 2 — I happen to have 2 of these Geo’s FMC415s so can just swap out under 5min! I also bought carbon in bulk. Link here.
https://www.geosreef.com/product/fmc415/

 

[X-37B]

Why less GAC needed? Wouldn’t you burn through more GAC if the ozone is allowing the GAC to extract more organics?

For one the Mutiny reactor uses 1 liter of carbon to pick up residual ozone.
In the skimmer today I just attatched the filter bag/Tunze and dropped in 1/2 cup of rox.
I run 2 9430dc's on this system.
I took ozone off skimmer #1 and attatched it to #2 where the Mutiny was.. #2 runs in the return section. It's been like this for a few months.
I am planning to remove #1 and replace it with a live rock fuge area to run opposite the day light cycle.
I can run the ozone at level 3 and maintain orp of 400. In the Mutiny I ran at level 6 which is alot more ozone to maintain 400, imo.
Less ozone and carbon needed for the same effect.

 

[djf91]

Ok, well thank you everybody. I think I’ll give it a try and see what happens. If anything it’ll help light penetration in my 30” tall tank.

Does anyone have experience with the Enaly Ozone Generator setup?

 

[djf91]

OK, I've read that statement too. Was there an actual experiment cited by Julian?

There are lots of DOC experiments, and since nearly all bacteria consume DOC, it is not unexpected that it impacts the microbiome.

It may well be true that some organics deter corals relative to other organisms such as algae, but there are several critical issues that relate to reefers as opposed to wild reefs:

1. If we have clean up crews that control algae, does that relative boosting of algae matter significantly in a reef tank?

2. Is the DOC effect specific to certain organics, or to generalized DOC? If specific, then it's important to know if those specific DOC are elevated in any individual reef tank, and/or whether control means such as GAC actually alter them.

3. If you do not seem to have apparent bacterial infection issues in corals, is the mere presence of a potentially pathogenic microorganism problematic enough to warrant changing husbandry practices?

Yes, the experiment performed by Forest Rohwer…