ozone

[beaslbob]

I am "experimenting" with ozone on my 55g.

using a cheapie 250mg/hour ozonator and meter from ebay.

I am dumping the ozone into a 2" pvc that is about 6' tall. The ozone is released at the bottom and the tank water introduced at the top.

The water then goes through crushed oyster shells and back up 4-5' to return to the tank.

I do not recommend this as the tank is on our back porch where there is good fresh outside are all around. There is an "ozone" smell when running. In a confined room there would probably be some danger to humans.

ORP started out at 100-120 mv and seems to be increasing at 20mv/day. 120 then 140 then 160 now 190.

I realize the I could recirculate the water to get more ozone/sater interaction. But that requires more work and expense. Not to mention that would almost be like a skimmer.

I am currently running the ozonator at 20 minutes on every hour. If the orp gets up to 400-500 I plan to manually dial the ozonator to maintain that level. There is no direct orp control of the ozonator. (as I said this is a cheapie :bigsmile: )

I was just wondering what experiences those that use ozone have had and how that compares with my experience.

Tank is fallow with , rock, sand, macro algaes, a few snails,and pods. But no fish or corals.

Bob

 

[TritonsGarden]

We tried ozone in our display tank once and never saw any improvement. We were running around 370-400mv ORP without ozone anyway so I just disconnected it. I may try it on our SPS frag tank someday if I can figure out a good safe/cheap way to connect it.

Jack

 

[Tomoko Schum]

What are you using ozone for, Bob?

I have not used ozone since its use in aquarium is somewhat controvertial and its benefits have not been proven.

I understand that a lot of people use it for increasing the clearity of water/light penetration and decreasing yellowness of aquarium water. Some may try to reduce a number of bacteria, virus, and other pathogens in fish tanks.

I suppose that an ORP value can be an indicator of the water quality since a lot of organic materials, such as fish food, metabolic waste products, the breakdown of dead organisms, and certain additives like iron supplements or vitamin C additives, lower an ORP value. A low oxygen level or a presence of hydrogen sulfide cause a low ORP value as well.

Tomoko

 

[beaslbob]

Tomoko

Eric borneman made a good pitch for it on his forum. And dr randy holmes farley also.

Both use macros to balance out the thanks and Eric doesn't use skimmers.

for clarity and my old tang did have HLLE also. Though it might help clear that up. but then it lived for 3 years that way.

Besides 8 ball uses it so it must have some use. :wink:

 

[Tomoko Schum]

Do you have a link for the thread? My search on Eric's forum did not find it. I've read a few articles that Dr. Randy published on the use of ozone in Reefkeeping magazine a few years ago.

Tomoko

 

[beaslbob]

Do you have a link for the thread? My search on Eric's forum did not find it. I've read a few articles that Dr. Randy published on the use of ozone in Reefkeeping magazine a few years ago.

Tomoko

Well here was my questions thread:

http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic91288-9-1.aspx

and the thread that got me thinking and started on ozone

http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic87319-9-1.aspx?Highlight=ozone

I'll give you my anecdote on ozone. Despite years of skepticism of all things said as truisms in the hobby, I had read when I first got in the hobby about the dangers of ozone, the halogen radicals, etc. For years my stance was that ozone was effective and had a place - in stores and facilities to help water quality and deal with waterborne pathogens and parasites - but no place necessary in a normally functioning home aquarium. Then, years ago I was talking with Sanjay Joshi and he had started running ozone on his Penn State tank and was thrilled with it and I was surprised since Sanjay's tank was already so beautiful and healthy and I parroted those earlier "truisms" like a sheep, He simply asked "How do we know that? Has anyone really shown that?" Light dawned on marble head and I immediately accepted and said, "no." He said try it. I asked if he saw any downsides and he said none. So, I bought an ozonizer. I bought two, actually, made for the hobby and they both broke or quit after several months of use - typical of aquarium products. So, I bought a spa ozonizer with larger ozone output and pushed it into the beckett of my skimmer and then over carbon. The water became even clearer, and I saw no visible signs of loss of any organisms, including sponges, worms, bryozoans, forams, and no ill effects on fish and coral. None.

The thing is, my tanks already normally had very high ORP levels, especially during the day, and despite having used ORP probes either periodically or continuously, I did not find them to be valuable readings and less valuable than my eye in assessing overall tank health. I never have and still don't worry about ORP though I recognize its potential measure. I don't ever measure it anymore and frankly, don't trust most hobby quality probes, either.

UV, I still think, is a dumb idea except for perhaps treatment tanks or QT tanks as they do kill good things in the water, and most of the parasites and pathogens are not in the water column and even if they are, no one really funnels 100% of their water through a UV. So, this I think has potential use in places that hold or have high turnover of livestock not in the best of health, but not in a home display. UV can also mutate DNA of bacteria and not kill them and this is a bad thing, in general.

My principle feeling on ozone is that it is very safe if run properly and it is very clarifying to the water column. I am pro-ozone. As for Bob making the statement about being more important than skimming, that's not a comparison. They do completely different things, and I have never thought skimmers were a necessary item for most tanks while recognizing their use in certain situations. For Bob to suddenly adopt that a skimmer is maybe not that important is a notion that despite conventional "truism" has been known for a long time and practiced for decades. To say ozone and UV and ORP is perhaps more important than skimming is comparing apples and oranges. We also debate if light or water flow or food is more important. Well, they are all important, but hobbyists tend to focus more on light than either flow or food, but they are all important. In terms of this topic, you can have high ORP without ozone, UV, or skimmers, or you can have a disastrous tank with all three and everything in between. I don't think you can intelligently be dogmatic across the board in terms of everyone's tanks. To make a statement like that requires some data, of which there isn't any.

 

[cloakerpoked]

For clarity, why not just use Activated Carbon? It seems to get great clarity in my tanks...no need for expensive/dangerous ORP systems...

 

[beaslbob]

For clarity, why not just use Activated Carbon? It seems to get great clarity in my tanks...no need for expensive/dangerous ORP systems...

and that is an excellent question.

 

[Mariner]

I'd like to hear 8ball chime in about here. He's has used ozone and also quite a bit of carbon I believe. Of course he probably just wants to see if he can read the classified ads looking through the aqaurium...long ways. :smile:
Mariner

 

[8BALL_99]

LoL @ mariner,
I've ran ozone for a while now. I used it on my old 190 with good results. Higher Orb and the water was crystal clear. I ended up not using it after I moved the tank since the orb stayed high anyway. But I've been running it on my 300 for quite awhile now. Most of you have seen my Reactor I made. Pretty much just some 2" Pvc about 5 foot tall with some micro bioballs in it. My ozone runs 24/7 I do have a Aquacontroller that monitors the ORB level and will cut off the ozone if needed. It does seem to clear the water up quite a bit. How much it helps the tank over all, I dont know. It has only helped and I haven't knoticed any negitive effects of it so I'll keep using it.
Carbon also clears the water and before I ran ozone I use to run carbon about once a month or anytime my water had a yellow tint to it. I test that with just a white plastic cup.. Scoop water out and look at the bottom of the cup. Problem with carbon is it not only takes the bad out but it takes the good out also. Ozone does kill bacteria in the water good and bad, but I dont think it does enough to have a negitive effect on the tank. Atleast as far as I can tell

 

[beaslbob]

8BALL__99 I presume the micro balls are to breakup the ozone into finer bubbles? Do you use a recirculating pump?

BTW what is Orb? anything like ORP?

You used it twice so I presume is was not a mistake. Everyone know I am the one who has exclusive rights on making misteaks. Woops mistakes.

 

[H@rry]

I run carbon 24/7 and change it once a month. I think it clears the water somewhat which allows for better penetration of light. I think this allows the coral to color up a little more. Might just be my imagination though. Carbon's pretty cheap anyway.

 

[8BALL_99]

8BALL__99 I presume the micro balls are to breakup the ozone into finer bubbles? Do you use a recirculating pump?

BTW what is Orb? anything like ORP?

You used it twice so I presume is was not a mistake. Everyone know I am the one who has exclusive rights on making misteaks. Woops mistakes.

lol A Orb is a sphere! sorry I was on my Iphone and it likes to change my text to what it thinks it should be. Yes I meant ORP
Yep the Mini bio balls are just to help break up the bubbles and help with contact time. Same idea as Co2 Reactors for planted FW tanks. No mine isn't recirculating. When I posted mine on RC there was a couple of guys that tried to make it recirculating but had issues with keeping a constant flow with either the water or the air. Really I don't think there is any need. Mine works well enough that I not only don't worry with my air dryer much but my ozone generator isn't even turned above 40%.

I still use carbon some.. Infact I've got a 5 gallon bucket sitting on the shelf of the stuff. My ozone reactor drains into carbon then into my skimmer. Carbon and ozone aren't really the same thing. The only thing they have in common at all is they both clear the water.

 

[Tomoko Schum]

8Ball -

Hate to highjack this thread, but you seem to monitor this thread more often than others, I'd like to ask you a question about reflectors. Please PM or email me your answer so we can take this discussion out of this thread.

Here's my quetion:
I recall you had Lumen Bright or something like that above your tank previously. I seem to recall that you did not have glass shields on them. Did you have to clean them periodically to keep them really shiny? I recently saw some that looked somewhat foggy due to what seemed like a gradual salt buildup (not splashes but fine coating) in humid salty air.

I am sorry, beaslbob, for highjacking the thread.
Now you guys can go back to the regular discussion .

By the way, why are you using oyster shell instead of GAC on the outlet of your generator?

Tomoko

 

[Paul_N]

I am dosing vodka and vitamin C. I had heard that using ozone would be counter productive with carbon dosing. Is that true?

 

[TonyB]

Ozone is not dangerous. It's safe if a properly sized unit is used with a good controller and a proper "reactor" to apply it to the system. I use it on my system in a closed area and can rarely smell it. I have it plumbed into my skimmer and very little 03 finds its way out. Keep in mind that O3 is very reactive and gives up an O molecule very quickly and easily when introduced to organic matter. In a matter of seconds the O3 quickly becomes harmless O2. A 250 mg unit is way overkill for a 55g tank and you're adding it to the tank in a very inefficient way so most of it is escaping into the atmosphere. I use a 100mg/hr unit on a 150g system and have it turned down to produce 70mg/hr. If the ORP is low, this small amount will increase the ORP by 15-20mV per day. You've got more than double the ozone on a system that's a third of the size of mine. That tells me that your application method is very inefficient.

I've noticed overall better water quality since the addition of ozone to my system.

 

[TonyB]

ORP started out at 100-120 mv and seems to be increasing at 20mv/day. 120 then 140 then 160 now 190.



Bob

If your ORP is that low to begin with, that tells me that you've got other problems to deal with that simple addition of ozone wont help. Overstocking, over feeding, poor circulation, inefficient skimmer, low dissolved o2 or generally poor water quality.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see you experimenting with ozone. All I'm saying is to use it properly before dismissing it as ineffective.

 

[8BALL_99]

Wow Tony just beat the man down. JK. But really I didn't pay that much attention to the numbers. Your systems ORP is very low. Thats alos really is a much larger generator then you need. I only run a 50mg unit on my 300 gallon and its not even at 50%. I also dont have any ozone odor in my fishroom. But my reactor is built with that issue in mind. It has a pretty good contact time, then the water drains into a carbon reactor, then that drains into a skimmer, then to a 100 gallon sump lol. So for ozone to make it into the tank would take an act of god. For it to get into the air would be pretty tough. The air and water that exits the reactor are both pumped through the carbon reactor the air is allowed to escape before going to the skimmer, But I'm pretty sure by then the O3 is gone.

 

[beaslbob]

And I deserve it. serious.

Thanks. and looks like I have some mods to make. I already plugged the overflow. We'll wait to see what happens. As minimum i do expect to have to add another pump or two.

Again tanks.

 

[Tomoko Schum]

Any updates, Bob?

Tomoko