Peeps - I'm losing the dino battle. I'm lost - what's my next step?

Kongar · Dec 10, 2020

Update: Why o why did I wait so long to try DinoX? This stuff for me is a miracle. I'm telling you, I tried really hard to do things properly and slowly - ID, maintaining parameters, cleaning, UV, peroxide - the works. Again, the only thing I didn't do was plumb a bigger UV right into the display. Either way - none of that worked at all. UV slowed the spreading down a bit - but that was it - by no means stopped it. Guys, this has been going on since July - so disheartening.

I've done ONE dose of DinoX and I can't describe how much it's given these dinos a proper kick in the you-know-what. As soon as any lights hit the tank, I'd have brown covering everything within an hour, and 2 inch long snot strings everywhere within 2 hours. I haven't seen snot strings for two days, and there's white patches on my sand. WHITE PATCHES! I haven't even siphoned any dinos off the sandbed! I have a yellow hammer - I could see the inside of it's skeleton (the parts that look like ribs/ridges. I was for sure he was a goner like my torch. This morning - it's popped out and extended a couple of polyps and they are yellow. I haven't seen yellow on it in over a month.

I'm downright giddy. I see no adverse affects whatsoever - corals and fish are looking ok. I know every situation is different and that's part of what makes battling these so difficult. But in this case, like I said, feels like a miracle cure. I'll update again with pictures after I've completed the regimen.

Thanks to @Hallowhead for the kick in the pants

Hallowhead · Dec 10, 2020

Kongar said:
Update: Why o why did I wait so long to try DinoX? This stuff for me is a miracle. I'm telling you, I tried really hard to do things properly and slowly - ID, maintaining parameters, cleaning, UV, peroxide - the works. Again, the only thing I didn't do was plumb a bigger UV right into the display. Either way - none of that worked at all. UV slowed the spreading down a bit - but that was it - by no means stopped it. Guys, this has been going on since July - so disheartening.

I've done ONE dose of DinoX and I can't describe how much it's given these dinos a proper kick in the you-know-what. As soon as any lights hit the tank, I'd have brown covering everything within an hour, and 2 inch long snot strings everywhere within 2 hours. I haven't seen snot strings for two days, and there's white patches on my sand. WHITE PATCHES! I haven't even siphoned any dinos off the sandbed! I have a yellow hammer - I could see the inside of it's skeleton (the parts that look like ribs/ridges. I was for sure he was a goner like my torch. This morning - it's popped out and extended a couple of polyps and they are yellow. I haven't seen yellow on it in over a month.

I'm downright giddy. I see no adverse affects whatsoever - corals and fish are looking ok. I know every situation is different and that's part of what makes battling these so difficult. But in this case, like I said, feels like a miracle cure. I'll update again with pictures after I've completed the regimen.

Thanks to @Hallowhead for the kick in the pants

Just make sure you stay on top of it now. Don't stop dosing because you think it's gone.. my first treatment mistake. Continue the treatment till the max prescribed on the directions. You might need to dose again and learn from my mistakes and dose it right away when you see it don't try to siphon them out in the small appearances - just hit them hard.

Post some pics !!

I remember when my zoanthids first started opening and I was like it's no longer a tank full of rocks anymore !

Kongar · Dec 10, 2020

I don’t have a two days ago picture. I’ll be honest - I’ve been so depressed with the state of my tank I stopped taking pictures of it. But imagine 100% coverage of the sand with about 1/4 inch thick brown snot mat with long 1in+ long strings with a bubble on them waving like a field of wheat. Two days, one dose. Tank now looks like this - requested pic

Look at that beautiful hammer that’s not dead and all that visible sand! 2nd dose tonight. I’ll post more progress pics. God I hope this keeps up.

Kongar · Dec 12, 2020

Day 4, 2 doses down. DinoX continues to knock them back. Skimmer is pulling out some pretty funky stuff. Sand is noticeably whiter, the spots that remain still grow a little slimy over a day of lighting. But there is much much less of it. Hammer looked unhappy and retracted a bit yesterday after the 2nd dose. Looks much happier today. Overall - continued good progress, and my tank looks better than it has in months.

Kongar · Dec 15, 2020

Day 6 shot, three doses. Just about gone. I couldn’t be happier. There’s still a few specks of dinos on the sand, and my skimmer is still pulling out some funky stuff. I’ll continue dosing for 10-15 doses as the bottle says.

I did have a casualty - my cleaner shrimp was on his back on the sand. Woke up the next morning and he had been eaten - I think a combination of snails and fish. Unclear to me if he was molting or dying. If dying, it’s unclear what the cause was. Corals look happier than they’ve been, and the fish and few remaining snails seem to be fine.

NeonRabbit221B · Dec 15, 2020

I guess I will check out DinoX in the future. Glad to hear your tank is back on track!

just4plaay · Dec 15, 2020

I was in the same place as you. Finally bit the bullet and went Dino X. Three doses in I could see massive recession from the Dino so I started adding crazy amount of pods and bacteria (fritz turbo start, vibrant, etc). I continued the Dino X through the 7th treatment and by then they were all gone. Two months later I continue to feed phyto but have recently stopped adding pods because the population is crazy strong. Up until using Dino X I lost a few very nice corals but from the day I started on the losses stopped. It is not the nuclear option and worked for me. Just have a plan to replace the dino with alternate biodiversity as they disappear to ensure you don't have a recurrence.

As soon as I saw recession from the Dino and started dosing pods I turned my UV off (to give the copepods a better chance at survival). Throughout the entire process I ran blues only about 5 hours a day.

Hallowhead · Dec 15, 2020

I'm glad you're cleaned up!

I've just noticed a small breakout again. My parameters are stable so I'm waiting a day or two to begin dinox - need to confirm not diatoms.

It's a tricky little booger for sure and in my next tank I have so many lessons learned

Kongar · Dec 16, 2020

Day 8, four doses down. 5th dose tonight.
I see zero dinos ON anything. IN the sand (as I view from the sides of the glass), there are still some brown areas. I’m convinced those are dinos hiding out. I’ve noticed some algae growing finally. There’s a tiny patch of green something on my return nozzle (which is very close to a light), and some funny looking seaweed things growing out of the sand. They are greenish brown. I’m taking this as a good sign, I was hoping to see algae and not cyano for my next tank visitor. Hammer is slowly recovering, I think he’s going to make it. My elegance coral made a second mouth, and one of my acans popped out like 5 new baby heads. It’s amazing how much healthier and happy everything is with the dinos knocked back.

I plan to take this for at least 10 doses before stopping. Question: my nitrates are getting high -15ish. Alk consumption has started again. My kalk drip is unreliable and I don’t trust it. When do you all think I should start my water change regimen again, and when should I switch back to all for reef? Instructions clearly state no water changes or trace elements until you’re “done”. When is done?

pic

just4plaay · Dec 16, 2020

The nitrification cycle that ultimately turns ammonia into nitrate also "lock up" carbonate hardness (alk). Thankfully this alk is returned to the system as the nitrates are removed, except in the case of removal via water change. Nitrates at 15 are not high enough to kill most coral though they may cause some to turn a little brown. Once nutrients are under control again those will color back up.

That being said when I ran Dino X my nutrients spiked to about 25 nitrate and .2 phosphate. There are numerous products out that can reduce nutrients fairly fast but I never used them. The Dino's had been out-competing your biological filtration and the filtration needs a chance to rebuild itself. If you aren't seeing problems with coral give it some time to recover and you'll see the nutrients start to recede. Personally I would make a DIY ATS before I would go down the path of additives to control nutrients.

Kongar · Dec 28, 2020

Last Update: SUCCESS! I told my wife there was only two things on my wish list for Christmas: one of them being the dinos gone from my tank. Thank you Santa for delivering!

December 28th. I dosed DinoX 8 times. 3ml each time because there's about 16gal of water in my IM20 Gal tank (due to rock and sand). It DID hit my CUC a bit. As mentioned earlier, I lost my cleaner shrimp, and a little while later, my emerald crab. I have two nerite snails in the tank, and while they are pretty hardy, it got to a point where I found them fallen off the glass/rocks after dosing, and had to flip them over. I think if I'd have kept going, they'd have died. But they made it and look better now that I've stopped.

Most importantly - THE DINOS ARE COMPLETELY GONE! Like eradicated, dead, gone, can't even see a trace of them. Sand is the whitest white, and I can actually see my rock's surface again!. All my corals are FAT and happy, it's been so long since I've seen them puffy and extended and GROWING. My gold hammer made it - he took a hard hit, but pulled through and is growing slowly again. My elegance coral, which is one of my favorites, really wasn't bothered by the dinos much - but now that they are gone, I swear he's doubled in size. I can't believe how fat and spread out he gets during the day now.

Algae:
I never got cyano post dinos. Yay! For a little bit, there was nothing in the tank - dinos or algae (all algae had previously been outcompeted or killed by the dinos). But eventually, the algae started. In fact, I'm seeing algae now that I've never seen before, and always wondered why I never got it. There's turf algae growing in spots, some weird kind of seaweed looking algae growing out of the sand (green), hair algae is starting in a few spots, and I can see about 15 little spots of bubble algae all over the tank. Bubble algae is completely new for me, I'm guessing that'll be my next battle. I'll just get another emerald crab - maybe it was always there and he ate it (now that he's dead, I'm seeing it). But overall, I'm going to let the algae get a foothold and maybe even a little ugly. I'll take a whole tank of bubble/hair algae over dinos anyday! One last thing of note - I do think the dinox hits the algae a bit as well. It's growing much faster now that I've stopped dosing.

Parameters and path forward:
I do have an eshopps nano skimmer, but I can't fit the skimmer, the UV sterilizer, and carbon all at the same time in the back of the tank. So I pulled the skimmer, and decided on running the UV 24/7 instead. I'll do this alongside filter floss and a bag of carbon (GFO as needed). With a 20G tank - I can easily do large % water changes, and I'm going to keep it simple - water changes for nutrient export (after testing of course to make sure nutrients don't bottom out.) For the first time ever, high nutrients are a thing. Nitrates and phosphates climb much faster without dinos around. I followed the directions to a T, meaning no water changes, and my nitrates got pretty high - around 30. I did a 50% water change and got them down to ~15 and I'll let it sit there for a couple of weeks. Then I'll do another big one and target something below 10 for the next time. I started dosing all for reef again, albeit a much lower dosage now that my large torch is dead, and there's only a couple of snails. I also started feeding the corals again. I was worried that the extra trace elements alongside the water change would cause another bloom of dinos hidden in the sand. Knock on wood - so far, that hasn't happened.

I think - after about 9 hard months - my 1st reef tank is on the right track - FINALLY. Hopefully I can keep it on the right track, and keep these dang dinos from reappearing. Thank you R2R for the help and support!

Edit: Is it possible to change a thread title? I'd be nice to add (Updated - Success) or something similar...

Woodneers · Dec 28, 2020

Daily H2O2 and lower lights seemed to work for me.

King Turkey · Dec 28, 2020

I beat it dosing nitrate maintained it at 20ppm for a month did not turn lights off never did a water change. Kept algae scrubber and skimmer going. Ran carbon and all is good. Scoly recided but recovered. I say beat but most likely just keep it well maintained. Don't let nitrate drop to low don't zero out phosphate.

Hallowhead · Dec 28, 2020

Kongar said:
Last Update: SUCCESS! I told my wife there was only two things on my wish list for Christmas: one of them being the dinos gone from my tank. Thank you Santa for delivering!

December 28th. I dosed DinoX 8 times. 3ml each time because there's about 16gal of water in my IM20 Gal tank (due to rock and sand). It DID hit my CUC a bit. As mentioned earlier, I lost my cleaner shrimp, and a little while later, my emerald crab. I have two nerite snails in the tank, and while they are pretty hardy, it got to a point where I found them fallen off the glass/rocks after dosing, and had to flip them over. I think if I'd have kept going, they'd have died. But they made it and look better now that I've stopped.

Most importantly - THE DINOS ARE COMPLETELY GONE! Like eradicated, dead, gone, can't even see a trace of them. Sand is the whitest white, and I can actually see my rock's surface again!. All my corals are FAT and happy, it's been so long since I've seen them puffy and extended and GROWING. My gold hammer made it - he took a hard hit, but pulled through and is growing slowly again. My elegance coral, which is one of my favorites, really wasn't bothered by the dinos much - but now that they are gone, I swear he's doubled in size. I can't believe how fat and spread out he gets during the day now.

Algae:
I never got cyano post dinos. Yay! For a little bit, there was nothing in the tank - dinos or algae (all algae had previously been outcompeted or killed by the dinos). But eventually, the algae started. In fact, I'm seeing algae now that I've never seen before, and always wondered why I never got it. There's turf algae growing in spots, some weird kind of seaweed looking algae growing out of the sand (green), hair algae is starting in a few spots, and I can see about 15 little spots of bubble algae all over the tank. Bubble algae is completely new for me, I'm guessing that'll be my next battle. I'll just get another emerald crab - maybe it was always there and he ate it (now that he's dead, I'm seeing it). But overall, I'm going to let the algae get a foothold and maybe even a little ugly. I'll take a whole tank of bubble/hair algae over dinos anyday! One last thing of note - I do think the dinox hits the algae a bit as well. It's growing much faster now that I've stopped dosing.

Parameters and path forward:
I do have an eshopps nano skimmer, but I can't fit the skimmer, the UV sterilizer, and carbon all at the same time in the back of the tank. So I pulled the skimmer, and decided on running the UV 24/7 instead. I'll do this alongside filter floss and a bag of carbon (GFO as needed). With a 20G tank - I can easily do large % water changes, and I'm going to keep it simple - water changes for nutrient export (after testing of course to make sure nutrients don't bottom out.) For the first time ever, high nutrients are a thing. Nitrates and phosphates climb much faster without dinos around. I followed the directions to a T, meaning no water changes, and my nitrates got pretty high - around 30. I did a 50% water change and got them down to ~15 and I'll let it sit there for a couple of weeks. Then I'll do another big one and target something below 10 for the next time. I started dosing all for reef again, albeit a much lower dosage now that my large torch is dead, and there's only a couple of snails. I also started feeding the corals again. I was worried that the extra trace elements alongside the water change would cause another bloom of dinos hidden in the sand. Knock on wood - so far, that hasn't happened.

I think - after about 9 hard months - my 1st reef tank is on the right track - FINALLY. Hopefully I can keep it on the right track, and keep these dang dinos from reappearing. Thank you R2R for the help and support!

Edit: Is it possible to change a thread title? I'd be nice to add (Updated - Success) or something similar...

Glad to hear !!

Make sure you keep an eye on the parameters now! My dino "breakout" was actually just cyano outbreak which lasted short

Dan_P · Dec 28, 2020

Kongar said:
I'm a noob, but I'm trying my best. I've read the threads, I got a microscope, I raised my nitrates and phosphates, I installed UV, I did a blackout, clean my rocks and sand to get them into the water column, I stopped water changes. My corals are dying and I've made very little progress on the brown snot for 2.5 months. I've hesitated to use H2O2 and DinoX as that seems like a nuclear option. I don't want to kill off what little hair algae / green algae I have. Frankly speaking, I think in my case the conventional wisdom isn't holding - the dinos are out competing everything else. My tank is almost 8 months old and is an embarrassment.

What would your next step be?

H2O2 every day?

DinoX?

Keep waiting? For how long?

Set up the QT, move the corals and fish into that? break the tank down, irradiate it, buy new live rock and start over?

SIGH...