pH Issues

[Dono]

Hey All! First time post, long time lurk!

I've recently setup my 90gal in my new home (first tank at this home) and have been experiencing pH issues through my cycle and beyond. I know the pH is naturally depressed during the reef cycle but it's been unusually low (6.7-7.5, confirmed w/ Calibrated Apex Probe + RedSea test kit). Since I have hurricane windows being in South Florida, I had a hunch it might be higher than normal CO2 in the home and to my surprise I was averaging 3800-4200 ppm CO2. The tank has been up for about 3-4 weeks now and I've passed a small diatom stage of my cycling. The pH seems to have leveled out between 7.3-7.6. I also still have not done a Water Change yet (Using Aquaforest Reef Salt Mix).

Now I don't have the ability to run an airline outside, so I'm looking for alternatives before I look to a scrubber. Also, opening windows isn't an option for me. I have a 10 month old and it's South Florida -- it's HOT!

My questions:

1.) Will my first water change at 1 month in bring my pH up to a more manageable level (7.6-7.9)? Could this be my salt mix (I haven't mixed a new batch to test yet)?

2.) Could it be my salt mix that's keeping my pH so low, or is this really all from my ambient CO2 levels?

3.) Is a scrubber my only option? Is Chaeto effective at fighting this low of a pH?

 

[Crabs McJones]

Welcome to R2R!
An enclosed area with heightened CO2 levels will bring and keep your PH down. If you're unable to run a line to the outside or open windows, a CO2 scrubber is going to be your best bet unfortunately.

#WelcometoR2R

 

[Dono]

Harumph! Thanks for the answer. I just placed my order for a scrubber and a ton of media. I have a feeling I'm going to go through this stuff like water!

Any other tips outside of macro algae/scrubber for getting pH up naturally (without opening a window) would be helpful. Looking to get creative here.

 

[Crabs McJones]

Harumph! Thanks for the answer. I just placed my order for a scrubber and a ton of media. I have a feeling I'm going to go through this stuff like water!

Any other tips outside of macro algae/scrubber for getting pH up naturally (without opening a window) would be helpful. Looking to get creative here.

A refugium with macro algae would be a good idea, and would help keep your other nutrient levels down as well

 

[redfishbluefish]

Welcome to R2R!

At first I was going to tell you that that low of a pH is near impossible. However, with that high a CO2, approaching dangerous levels for your family, I'd highly recommend an air exchanger that will bring in fresh air while "keeping" the heat or cold within the house.

As far as considering a CO2 scrubber, at that high a level, you'll burn through soda lime within minutes....way too costly, unless you have very deep pockets.

You really need to vent your house!

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

My questions:

1.) Will my first water change at 1 month in bring my pH up to a more manageable level (7.6-7.9)? Could this be my salt mix (I haven't mixed a new batch to test yet)?

2.) Could it be my salt mix that's keeping my pH so low, or is this really all from my ambient CO2 levels?

3.) Is a scrubber my only option? Is Chaeto effective at fighting this low of a pH?

1.) No. pH in reef tanks is almost entirely controlled by CO2. Changing water won't change the CO2 in your home, so your pH will trend to where it is now after the water change.

2.) Your pH is not a function of your salt mix. There is no way you can increase pH without increasing alkalinity and/or decreasing CO2. It is not your salt mix, it's the CO2. You have very, very high CO2 (if those readings are accurate).

3.) No, you can control CO2 in other ways. But controlling CO2 is likely your only option.

Personally, I would consider getting an HVAC contractor to come out and measure the CO2 in your home to make sure your reading is accurate. That's incredibly high and may cause health problems long term. If that number is accurate, you should consider installing an air exchanger to lower the overall CO2 in your home, more for your and your family's health than your reef tank's pH.

 

[lapin]

I would try to grow a lot of house plants. Some are better at gas exchange than others. Might not take care of all the C02 but every little bit helps

 

[Dono]

That lines up with a lot of what I've suspected. I have an HVAC company coming out to check up on the system and verify my readings. Though I calibrated my tools and am sure they're relatively accurate (outside was showing 440-475 on my probe).

Thanks for the advice everyone!

 

[Dono]

More important question!

While I fix the circulation issue, I just setup my QT. Is my only course of action at correcting its pH using a buffer?

The thought of that makes me cringe. I know fish can tolerate 7.5 at a low end for pH, but I’m only sometimes barely getting there with extremely good turnover and circulation in my main DT.

Not sure what to do here

 

[Dono]

For anyone curious about the effects of CO2 on pH. See if you can guess when I opened my window/door.

 

[redfishbluefish]

For anyone curious about the effects of CO2 on pH. See if you can guess when I opened my window/door.

Wow! I'm going to repeat what I said earlier.....you need an air exchanger installed. I'm surprised the family isn't experiencing high CO2 symptoms. An exchanger exhausts the "bad" air in the house with fresh air from the outside while retaining either the heat or cold. Please let us know what the HVAC guy says. I'm also curious why such high levels....a bunch of people living in the house or a relatively new house built "tight?"

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Get a new ph test.

 

[Dono]

It’s a condo near the beach. Hurricane windows that are air tight. I’m eager to see what the HVAC says too!

We’ve had allergy type symptoms and headaches. It all makes sense now but it’s only me, my wife, my 10 month old and two cats in a 2000 sq Ft condo. Pretty strange if you ask me

 

[OMGitsManBearPig]

I don’t have the kind of experience in saltwater like I do with freshwater. That being said, I have decades of experience injecting Co2 into my freshwater tanks to encourage plant growth. I regularly keep my Co2/ levels in the 55ppm-ish range and use boatloads of light to get explosive growth. Running a knife-edge setup like this requires a lot of monitoring and careful manipulation of chemistry. One wrong move with a buffer at these extremes could quickly stress and kill the occupants of the aquarium.

The suggestions you have received already jive with my experience. You would benefit from a refugium with a very strong light. You’d likely become a macro farm. Frankly - if you aren’t experiencing a large algae growth issue right now I’m forced to seriously doubt your measurements. (Not saying I don’t believe you.) How are you controlling nuisance algae - zero nutrients?

I like the idea of getting some plant in the house, too. Some high surface area leafy plants and some grow LED lights to be on when you aren’t home would do wonders. It would also look pretty nice, too. (You’d grow pot like a GOD.) ;Wacky

I also have experience as an HVAC manufacturer’s rep. I can say with confidence and authority that you have a borderline unsafe living condition. In theory, you should be experiencing elevated heart rate and dizziness at home. Or - if you are really used to it, you should feel much more awake and energized once you leave the house. To drive the point home, OSHA gets involved when a workplace gets to 5,000ppm.

Solving this in a residential air handling system would not be unlike a commercial one. A small (it’s just a few inches in diameter) outside aid intake is added to the return heading into the air handler to add fresh air. There is also some level of relief venting to prevent a positive pressure environment that would keep that outside air from flowing in. I get that it’s hot - and yes, this will make your air handler work a little harder - but this is safety... You’ll breathe better, your heart will do it’s job with less work, and you’ll snore less meaning you’ll sleep better and your spouse will hate you less, if your levels are truly that elevated. A high quality air exchanger as the previous poster mentions is another solution that could be an added accessory to this system.

Let’s get your health right, then get the tank right.

EDIT - I see you have a contractor coming. Not sure if I missed that the first time reading through this thread. Sorry - looks like you’re taking all the right steps!

 

[OMGitsManBearPig]

It’s a condo near the beach. Hurricane windows that are air tight. I’m eager to see what the HVAC says too!

We’ve had allergy type symptoms and headaches. It all makes sense now but it’s only me, my wife, my 10 month old and two cats in a 2000 sq Ft condo. Pretty strange if you ask me

People breathe out as much as 50,000 ppm co2 with every breath. Compare that to your current air, and think about how your house isn’t breathing. It’s not so far fetched when you think about the tiny changes we make to our aquarium water to make big differences. Our bodies are very prolific co2 factories.

 

[Dono]

Get a new ph test.

I’ve tested my ph with a twice calibrated (7/10) Apex probe and 8-10 salifert/RedSea tests at this point. It’s accurate unfortunately.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I’ve tested my ph with a twice calibrated (7/10) Apex probe and 8-10 salifert/RedSea tests at this point. It’s accurate unfortunately.

Good. Probes can lie. Those two won’t.

 

[Dono]

Yea, it sucks for me being right. I've never encountered something like this. I guess I'm lucky I'm a reef nut and needed to definitively find out the root cause of the low pH in my aquarium.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Yea, it sucks for me being right. I've never encountered something like this. I guess I'm lucky I'm a reef nut and needed to definitively find out the root cause of the low pH in my aquarium.

One would wonder , if you had never checked, would you even know the difference.

 

[Frop]

Hey All! First time post, long time lurk!

I've recently setup my 90gal in my new home (first tank at this home) and have been experiencing pH issues through my cycle and beyond. I know the pH is naturally depressed during the reef cycle but it's been unusually low (6.7-7.5, confirmed w/ Calibrated Apex Probe + RedSea test kit). Since I have hurricane windows being in South Florida, I had a hunch it might be higher than normal CO2 in the home and to my surprise I was averaging 3800-4200 ppm CO2. The tank has been up for about 3-4 weeks now and I've passed a small diatom stage of my cycling. The pH seems to have leveled out between 7.3-7.6. I also still have not done a Water Change yet (Using Aquaforest Reef Salt Mix).

Now I don't have the ability to run an airline outside, so I'm looking for alternatives before I look to a scrubber. Also, opening windows isn't an option for me. I have a 10 month old and it's South Florida -- it's HOT!

My questions:

1.) Will my first water change at 1 month in bring my pH up to a more manageable level (7.6-7.9)? Could this be my salt mix (I haven't mixed a new batch to test yet)?

2.) Could it be my salt mix that's keeping my pH so low, or is this really all from my ambient CO2 levels?

3.) Is a scrubber my only option? Is Chaeto effective at fighting this low of a pH?

Holy crap!! 4000 ??? I think that can mess with your sleep and concentration and what not. Not sure how much.