Phosphate at 0 post cycle

[Luisn17]

Hello,

I recently setup my 240 gallon tank with roughly 30 gallons in the sump. I used turbo start 900 and ammonia to get the cycle process start, the sand I used was 80lbs of ocean direct and 40 lbs of dry sand. Roughly about 100lbs of dry rock. I used some cycled bio media from an established tank. I also added some two of the algae barn bacteria. Everything is running fine and I still daily test:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate:11
Phosphate:0
PH: 8.1
Temp:77.2

I was not testing for phosphate until I added some one my corals and noticed I was at zero. I added them on Wednesday of this week. I feared I may get dinos so I dosed the tank with neophos last night in order to get it up to 0.01. I checked this morning and is back at 0. I do have fish in the tank: 2 clowns, 3 tangs, and 2 two Toby puffers. I even added my zebra eel in an attempt to get my bioload up. I have not seen diatoms and this is week 3, this is my 5th tank I cycle but first at this size. Should I continue to dose neophos or will this create a huge headache for me down the road? I don’t plan to buy new fish for at least 2 months. I started to feed the fish 4 times a day and turned off the skimmer. Only chemical filtration is carbon and my refugium will be setup at a later time.

I appreciate any advice.

 

[Propane]

What kind of food are you feeding? Do you use filter socks?

 

[Luisn17]

What kind of food are you feeding? Do you use filter socks?

I feed Nyos chromys, TDO Chroma, Fauna Marina soft clown fish food. I also add oceanmajik, Red Sea Ab+ and restore. Seaweed every other day.

I use filter cups with floss in them. Don’t want to deal with cleaning socks.

 

[Propane]

Your nitrates are fine and it seems as though you are feeding enough. I think dosing phosphate would be a good option for you. I haven’t used neophos but I do dose phosphate. Shouldn’t cause long term problems IMO. I think having zero phosphate would be more detrimental long term.

 

[blecki]

I think your solution is to setup that refugium sooner rather than later. In fact, it's probably the first thing every reefer should setup. Never seen an issue with low phosphate / low nitrate once the refugium is full. IMO once your refugium is full of algae and critters you'll read 0 on both still, but there will be a constant release of small amounts from algae die off in the refugium. Dinos aren't caused by low phosphates; low phosphates are just the conditions under which they can out-compete other things - if you have 0 phosphates because those things are using it up, there's little risk of dinos. And you haven't said that you actually have any so are you sure you're not worrying about nothing?

Also since they become free floating at night a UV sterilizer can knock them down.

Wish it worked that way for Cyano.

 

[Luisn17]

I think your solution is to setup that refugium sooner rather than later. In fact, it's probably the first thing every reefer should setup. Never seen an issue with low phosphate / low nitrate once the refugium is full. IMO once your refugium is full of algae and critters you'll read 0 on both still, but there will be a constant release of small amounts from algae die off in the refugium. Dinos aren't caused by low phosphates; low phosphates are just the conditions under which they can out-compete other things - if you have 0 phosphates because those things are using it up, there's little risk of dinos. And you haven't said that you actually have any so are you sure you're not worrying about nothing?

Also since they become free floating at night a UV sterilizer can knock them down.

Wish it worked that way for Cyano.

Thanks. You make some good points, I had plans to set it up this weekend, I want to use dragon breathe versus cheato to avoid dealing with cheato going everywhere. Have not seen any Dino, algea, or diatoms, rocks still look white.

 

[blecki]

Never thought about cheato going everywhere. It doesn't seem able to escape my refugium.

 

[Luisn17]

Your nitrates are fine and it seems as though you are feeding enough. I think dosing phosphate would be a good option for you. I haven’t used neophos but I do dose phosphate. Shouldn’t cause long term problems IMO. I think having zero phosphate would be more detrimental long term.

Ok, I can also tell my bubble coral is not a fan of zero phosphate. Plan to keep dosing to keep it at 0.01 at the minimum.

 

[Luisn17]

Never thought about cheato going everywhere. It doesn't seem able to escape my refugium.

That was my experience when I had it in the sump, now I will use a bashsea ATO container converted to a refugium. Once the cheato ball becomes the size of a baseball or bigger it won’t fall apart.

 

[jda]

If you are feeding fish, then there is almost no chance that your corals are starved for phosphorous. Phosphate is just one of the many, many ways that corals get phosphorous. Phosphorous is the goal, not phosphate. I would not worry about this, but if you want to, then I would not do a thing without a good tool like the hannah ultra low checker. Feeding your fish more is likely a more direct way to get P to your corals than dosing po4.

 

[ScottJ]

I think your solution is to setup that refugium sooner rather than later. In fact, it's probably the first thing every reefer should setup. Never seen an issue with low phosphate / low nitrate once the refugium is full. IMO once your refugium is full of algae and critters you'll read 0 on both still, but there will be a constant release of small amounts from algae die off in the refugium. Dinos aren't caused by low phosphates; low phosphates are just the conditions under which they can out-compete other things - if you have 0 phosphates because those things are using it up, there's little risk of dinos. And you haven't said that you actually have any so are you sure you're not worrying about nothing?

Also since they become free floating at night a UV sterilizer can knock them down.

Wish it worked that way for Cyano.

I think this is really good advice. I set up a 55gal with a 20gal sump/refugium about 3 months ago. I used old dry rock from previous tanks. I cleaned and cycled the rock in the dark for a month or so. I put a huge bunch of cheato in the refugium right at the start of the tank.

I have a really light ugly phase right now, mostly diatoms that are fading, and a bit of hair algae in the display. The fuge has quite a bit of hair algae, and the cheato isn't really growing, but still hanging in there. A good amount of pods came with the cheato, I think.

I just did a water test this morning and have 1 or 2ppm nitrate and just barely any color on the phosphate test, both Salifert.

I had one 20gal tank, nasty hair, cyano, dinos, you name it, that never cleared up for 2 years. It didn't have a fuge. Finally tore it down.

My Evo 13.5 is going pretty good now, but struggled with ugly for the first couple years. Again, no refugium.

 

[Dan_P]

Hello,

I recently setup my 240 gallon tank with roughly 30 gallons in the sump. I used turbo start 900 and ammonia to get the cycle process start, the sand I used was 80lbs of ocean direct and 40 lbs of dry sand. Roughly about 100lbs of dry rock. I used some cycled bio media from an established tank. I also added some two of the algae barn bacteria. Everything is running fine and I still daily test:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate:11
Phosphate:0
PH: 8.1
Temp:77.2

I was not testing for phosphate until I added some one my corals and noticed I was at zero. I added them on Wednesday of this week. I feared I may get dinos so I dosed the tank with neophos last night in order to get it up to 0.01. I checked this morning and is back at 0. I do have fish in the tank: 2 clowns, 3 tangs, and 2 two Toby puffers. I even added my zebra eel in an attempt to get my bioload up. I have not seen diatoms and this is week 3, this is my 5th tank I cycle but first at this size. Should I continue to dose neophos or will this create a huge headache for me down the road? I don’t plan to buy new fish for at least 2 months. I started to feed the fish 4 times a day and turned off the skimmer. Only chemical filtration is carbon and my refugium will be setup at a later time.

I appreciate any advice.

Just keep dosing phosphate, turn on skimmer

 

[blecki]

That was my experience when I had it in the sump, now I will use a bashsea ATO container converted to a refugium. Once the cheato ball becomes the size of a baseball or bigger it won’t fall apart.

Sounds like it might have been dying. When it dies it disintegrates into lots of little threads.