Phosphate discussion part IV

[Treefer32]

Well, I'm sad to report this is sad but, I trying to figure out phosphate control and export low cost for a 3 year old 350 gallon reef. I suspect I've lost a lot of corals over the last 3 years due to yoyo effect of phosphates.

Corals are doing great, but seeing some RTN or STN on one acr. The other acro is growing bigger and no recession, but, checked phosphates for the first time in a month. Last month I tested week to week and they consistently stayed under .1. (hovering around .06 to .1 ppm - Hana tester).

Now, a month later, after close to 140 gallon water change, I finally got some new reagent packs and tested. A day after the water change phosphates were .11 ppm. I tested the next day, they were .12 ppm. I tested yesterday and they were up to .14 ppm. Consistently going up day to day after a month of being stable.

My current export methods are

Algae turf scrubber from Turbo Aquatics (full of algae every 3-4 days)
Reef Octopus skimmer rated for moderately stocked 500 gallon system Skimming somewhat wet.
30-40% water change once a month.
I run 750 ml of purigen, it's been about 3 months - wondering if the purigen is expired and that's why phosphates are creeping back up?
I'm dosing Phosphat-e lanthinum chloride to keep them managed for now (every couple days depending on need). But, I don't like LC as a long term solution, definitely cheep, but, I've noticed my RBTA doesn't like the LC. Tends to stay closed up longer when I dose consistently.

I feed heavy but I've got large fish, most of what I feed is gone within 10 minutes and I feed a sheet of nori every other day for my tangs. They go nuts if I don't feed them the nori every other day. . .

I don't run GFO. I really don't want a second mortgage on my home to control phosphates using GFO in this large of a tank.. Anything new or innovative or old and reinvented that would work better to export phosphates? Is there something more efficient than hair algae to grow on a turf scrubber with all red LEDs? Or some type of reactor outside of GFO that would pull phosphates out of the water? I don't know. . A phosphate eating nudibranch! O.k. I'm stretching the innovation!

There has to be something new and improved and relatively cost effective? No?

 

[dvgyfresh]

Nopox, chemi pure elite, macro algae in the display or refugium but I wouldn’t be alarmed your phosphate is not that high don’t chase it too much , I’ve been at .6 phosphate before and didn’t really see any issues besides slow coraline growth

 

[Treefer32]

Nopox, chemi pure elite, macro algae in the display or refugium but I wouldn’t be alarmed your phosphate is not that high don’t chase it too much , I’ve been at .6 phosphate before and didn’t really see any issues besides slow coraline growth

It was up to .66 at it's worst and I lost a 12" colony of Stylaphora, a birdsnest, and none of my acans or my hammers were doing well. Now since reducing, Acros were doing well until it started spiking, and my hammers have grown 3-4 new heads and are bushing out, Acans are finally starting to look like they're recovering, and my lobo has grown two new heads since getting the phosphates under control. I'll check out a nopox. I've heard that mentioned don't really no much about how it works.

 

[dvgyfresh]

It was up to .66 at it's worst and I lost a 12" colony of Stylaphora, a birdsnest, and none of my acans or my hammers were doing well. Now since reducing, Acros were doing well until it started spiking, and my hammers have grown 3-4 new heads and are bushing out, Acans are finally starting to look like they're recovering, and my lobo has grown two new heads since getting the phosphates under control. I'll check out a nopox. I've heard that mentioned don't really no much about how it works.

I used 5ml of nopox in 55gal of water brought phosphate from .19 to .04 it’s dangerously good lol , it increases bacterial population and can cause oxygen loss if not careful but you have a skimmer so I’m sure you are fine, skimmer skims wet with it. What is yr nitrate at?

 

[blasterman]

Difference of opinion, but I've not found macros or skimmers to really dent phosphate. Nitrate - different story.

If fish eat food that has a lot of phosphate it will just come back out the other end.

 

[Treefer32]

I'd say my fish eat around 2 oz of frozen food a day (homemade food with lots of selcon and aminos frozen into the ground food). Two bottles of selcon in 12 lbs of frozen food. Plus some nori and other additives for healthy fish. The fish love it, but, my 8" dragon wrasse will eat close to a half oz to oz by himself. Plus my three tangs (Carribean blue tang is the largest one) each will eat a half sheet of nori by themselves plus frozen food at the end of the day. I've paced it that I go through just over a gallon freezer bag of frozen food per month for 27 fish. I weighed each bag, so they're all at 16 oz. Assuming about 20-24 oz per month, that's around .75 oz of frozen per day, plus an average of 15-20 sheets of Nori a month. And then supplemental feeding of pellets in the morning for my anthias, which are devoured in under a minute.

I hand feed the frozen food to make sure my copperband gets first choice of the meaty frozen food. Then slowly melt it for the other fish in the tank. I wait until it's eaten then melt more until they no longer eat... 2-3 hours later, fish are crop dusting poop.... Feeding my corals...

I haven't measured nitrates. The last time I tested with Red Sea, I just got frustrated because the high range test was impossible to read the shades of maroon / pink on the chart. I think it was always at the 10-20 mark. But, that could just mean it's above 10-20.... I need a better nitrate test.

 

[dvgyfresh]

I'd say my fish eat around 2 oz of frozen food a day (homemade food with lots of selcon and aminos frozen into the ground food). Two bottles of selcon in 12 lbs of frozen food. Plus some nori and other additives for healthy fish. The fish love it, but, my 8" dragon wrasse will eat close to a half oz to oz by himself. Plus my three tangs (Carribean blue tang is the largest one) each will eat a half sheet of nori by themselves plus frozen food at the end of the day. I've paced it that I go through just over a gallon freezer bag of frozen food per month for 27 fish. I weighed each bag, so they're all at 16 oz. Assuming about 20-24 oz per month, that's around .75 oz of frozen per day, plus an average of 15-20 sheets of Nori a month. And then supplemental feeding of pellets in the morning for my anthias, which are devoured in under a minute.

I hand feed the frozen food to make sure my copperband gets first choice of the meaty frozen food. Then slowly melt it for the other fish in the tank. I wait until it's eaten then melt more until they no longer eat... 2-3 hours later, fish are crop dusting poop.... Feeding my corals...

I haven't measured nitrates. The last time I tested with Red Sea, I just got frustrated because the high range test was impossible to read the shades of maroon / pink on the chart. I think it was always at the 10-20 mark. But, that could just mean it's above 10-20.... I need a better nitrate test.

Definitely a lot of food entering the system haha but I would definitely measure nitrates, maybe somehow yr tank could be nitrogen limited compared to phosphate and more nitrate could reduce phosphate concentration , also beneficial to know because nopox lowers both nitrate and phosphate

 

[Treefer32]

Definitely a lot of food entering the system haha but I would definitely measure nitrates, maybe somehow yr tank could be nitrogen limited compared to phosphate and more nitrate could reduce phosphate concentration , also beneficial to know because nopox lowers both nitrate and phosphate

Started vodka dosing, I'm on Day 4. I had initially reduced phosphates with one 20 ml dose of Phosphate e from .14 to .11. Now, after 3 days of dosing 1.3 ml of vodka into a 350 gallon display. Phosphates dropped to .08ppm. Per the recipe I doubled the dose today from 1.3 ml to 2.6 ml. I'll do that the next 4 days. And see if phosphates continue to drop. Corals looking better again with phosphates under .1.... Seeing if I can get them below .05 ppm. Even my acans look like they're growing new tiny heads. Hopeful I have a way to maintain phosphates indefinitely now, despite bio load.