Phosphate levels in different salt mixes

[maxwell]

Hi , I have always thought that new salt mixes have zero phosphates is there a table for DD ,DD dosing salt ,TMPR and biactif , Red Sea blue bucket etc . The reason for asking is my tank is 0.08 to 0.1 using Hanna tester and varying results from different icp tests so i have been trying to reduce it to 0.03/0.04 using different media and water changes ( and all RO filters and resin replaced)with little success. At present i am using the DD dosing salt so tested a new batch which had 0.05 phosphate level so hence the question is there a manufacturers table showing levels i each salt .thanks

 

[P-Dub]

Hi , I have always thought that new salt mixes have zero phosphates is there a table for DD ,DD dosing salt ,TMPR and biactif , Red Sea blue bucket etc . The reason for asking is my tank is 0.08 to 0.1 using Hanna tester and varying results from different icp tests so i have been trying to reduce it to 0.03/0.04 using different media and water changes ( and all RO filters and resin replaced)with little success. At present i am using the DD dosing salt so tested a new batch which had 0.05 phosphate level so hence the question is there a manufacturers table showing levels i each salt .thanks

Not that I am aware of. Most phosphates enter the system via the food you feed.

 

[arking_mark]

I measured both newly mixed batches of TMP and Brightwell Neomarine @ 0.06ppm PO4 using Hanna Phosphate Checker.

 

[Mark Gray]

I checked my Red Sea Pro salt and it was .05 I am following along

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This is not something that is worth worrying about at all. You add far, far more in foods every day than you would using a salt mix with 0.1 ppm phosphate, and that amount in a salt mix (whether real or test error) is just needless worry over nothing.

Aquarium Chemistry: Phosphate And Math: Yes You Need To Understand Both

Foods are by far the most important source of phosphate in most aquariums. In considering whether sources of phosphate other than foods are important, one must carefully look to the actual amounts involved to determine whether other sources are even worth trying to minimize.

reefs.com

 

[arking_mark]

This is not something that is worth worrying about at all. You add far, far more in foods every day than you would using a salt mix with 0.1 ppm phosphate, and that amount in a salt mix (whether real or test error) is just needless worry over nothing.

Aquarium Chemistry: Phosphate And Math: Yes You Need To Understand Both

Foods are by far the most important source of phosphate in most aquariums. In considering whether sources of phosphate other than foods are important, one must carefully look to the actual amounts involved to determine whether other sources are even worth trying to minimize.

reefs.com

Great article.

 

[Colemansreef]

Was using accurasea one phosphates on fresh batch at 0.03. I switched to the esv b ionic seawater mix and I haven’t actually tested a fresh batch but the amount that my phosphates lower directly when I do a eater change has drastically increased I will have to do that test. But even if food is a much bigger factor with phosphates if someone is trying to bring phosphates below say .03 .02 you will never get it there by doing water changes with something that registers higher that’s good information to have either way.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

if someone is trying to bring phosphates below say .03 .02 you will never get it there by doing water changes with something that registers higher that’s good information to have either way.

Well, I disagree, unless the water change is the only thing being done to lower phosphate.

In general, water changes are a very poor way to lower phosphate regardless of the level in the new salt water because there's such a large reservoir of phosphate bound to rock and sand. Even a 100% water change with 0.00 ppm phosphate new salt water will not bring 0.03 ppm to 0.00 ppm in most aquaria. In many, it will be back close to the starting point within a day or two just by release from rock and sand.

 

[Colemansreef]

Well, I disagree, unless the water change is the only thing being done to lower phosphate.

In general, water changes are a very poor way to lower phosphate regardless of the level in the new salt water because there's such a large reservoir of phosphate bound to rock and sand. Even a 100% water change with 0.00 ppm phosphate new salt water will not bring 0.03 ppm to 0.00 ppm in most aquaria. In many, it will be back close to the starting point within a day or two just by release from rock and sand.

So how would you get them down then? What other way is there besides using gfo or something of that nature. Or carbon dosing.

 

[Colemansreef]

So how would you get them down then? What other way is there besides using gfo or something of that nature. Or carbon dosing.

I only feed my tank like a quarter of a cube of frozen food every week maybe 2x a week in a good week and I have had no luck getting them down except with water changes but like you said they go right back up and everyone says using the other methods I mentioned aren’t a good practice or a permanent solution. It’s a 60 gallon system.

 

[Miami Reef]

So how would you get them down then? What other way is there besides using gfo or something of that nature. Or carbon dosing.

• Protein skimming (to remove organics before they turn into phosphate).
• Medias: GFO or Aluminum oxide
• Growing macro algae/refugium/turf scrubber
• Lanthanum chloride

These are the most common ways to reduce phosphate. Don‘t drop PO4 too low because studies show corals can bleach with phosphate deficiency.

0.02ppm to 0.10ppm is the most common range for reef aquariums.

 

[Colemansreef]

• Protein skimming (to remove organics before they turn into phosphate).
• Medias: GFO or Aluminum oxide
• Growing macro algae/refugium/turf scrubber
• Lanthanum chloride

These are the most common ways to reduce phosphate. Don‘t drop PO4 too low because studies show corals can bleach with phosphate deficiency.

0.02ppm to 0.10ppm is the most common range for reef aquariums.

So if I have a lot of po4 bound to my rock I will basically need to use gfo or something to remove it over and over until the amount bound to my rocks reaches a level close to what I want to keep it at?

 

[Miami Reef]

So if I have a lot of po4 bound to my rock I will basically need to use gfo or something to remove it over and over until the amount bound to my rocks reaches a level close to what I want to keep it at?

Exactly.

 

[Colemansreef]

Exactly.

I swear I posted something on here a while ago planning to do this and everyone that replied told me that was the wrong way to do it and that I needed to do I series of water changes. reefing is so difficult….

 

[Miami Reef]

I swear I posted something on here a while ago planning to do this and everyone that replied told me that was the wrong way to do it and that I needed to do I series of water changes. reefing is so difficult….

Listen to credible people like Randy Holmes-Farely. He knows the nuances that the misinformed people don’t.

Yes, water changes can technically reduce high phosphate, but the rocks will just release what it has bound and you’ll end up near the starting point.


Water changes will be VERY expensive if the goal is remove a lot of phosphate in a normal sized tank with rocks and sand. Save your time, effort, and money; use something that can inexpensively and efficiently remove the PO4.

Just make sure PO4 doesn’t get too low. Most corals can tolerate higher levels of PO4 than starvation levels.

 

[Colemansreef]

Okay thank you yeah the water changes were starting to get very expensive

 

[Gtinnel]

I swear I posted something on here a while ago planning to do this and everyone that replied told me that was the wrong way to do it and that I needed to do I series of water changes. reefing is so difficult….

If you ask any question you will almost always get multiple answers, the key is to know who to trust. Since this is a chemistry question I doubt you’re going to get a more knowledgeable answer than Randy’s, who is a chemist.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So how would you get them down then? What other way is there besides using gfo or something of that nature. Or carbon dosing.

Appropriate ways to reduce phosphate include GFO or aluminum oxide or lanthanum, and growing macroalgae or an ATS. Each has pros and cons.

I don't think that carbon dosing is a good way to go. Too much nitrate reduction relative to phosphate reduction.

I'd also be cautious about assuming how important it is:

Skeptical Reefkeeping 9: Test Kits, Chasing Numbers and Phosphate

By Rich Ross and Chris Jury There are many standard parameters in the reefkeeping world that aquarists strive to match in their home reefs – water quality,

reefs.com

 

[Colemansreef]

Appropriate ways to reduce phosphate include GFO or aluminum oxide or lanthanum, and growing macroalgae or an ATS. Each has pros and cons.

I don't think that carbon dosing is a good way to go. Too much nitrate reduction relative to phosphate reduction.

I'd also be cautious about assuming how important it is:

Skeptical Reefkeeping 9: Test Kits, Chasing Numbers and Phosphate

By Rich Ross and Chris Jury There are many standard parameters in the reefkeeping world that aquarists strive to match in their home reefs – water quality,

reefs.com

Thanks my only issue is I notice when my phosphates get closer to 1.0 even at .06, .08 my corals start to close and look less good and less open. At .02 they always all look great and fully open. I keep wondering if it’s something other than the phosphates but bringing them down always makes them look good again. I really don’t necessarily want to have to worry about it if I don’t have to lol. It’s frustrating honestly.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks my only issue is I notice when my phosphates get closer to 1.0 even at .06, .08 my corals start to close and look less good and less open. At .02 they always all look great and fully open. I keep wondering if it’s something other than the phosphates but bringing them down always makes them look good again. I really don’t necessarily want to have to worry about it if I don’t have to lol. It’s frustrating honestly.

What have you used in the past to get phosphate down that improves the coral look?