Phosphate Removal
- Thread starter G’sReef
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RedReefer
2500 Club Member
I use chemi pure blue. No dead fish. Was the Hanna checker off?
RedReefer
2500 Club Member
Dang!
areefer01
2500 Club Member
Ignore both test kits for a minute and let me ask you this. How does the tank look to you? Are there any issues? If so, what are they?
Basic follow up questions. Have you run back to back tests using the Hanna checker? Are the reagents good and not expired? Have you used a reference solution?
ICP is a nice tool but too many hobbyists are using them as the defacto standard. Do you know their calibration frequency? Do you know if the systems are cleaned before, and after, every ICP test? Have you heard that some respected hobbyists have sent in multiple samples using water drawn at the same time to the same ICP vendor and got different results?
I'm sure you know this but figured I'd throw it out there. So how does your display look? My phosphate according to Hanna flashes 200
So I know it is high.
G’sReef
Active Member
Actually I didn’t know that about the ICP test. To me my tank definitely looks like something wrong. I’ve never really had an hair algae problem before and now it’s all in my sand and rock work and looks to be getting worse. I’ve just read post about stuff like Phosphate-E killing things after people have used them. My corals and fish seem to be fine, the algae is just getting worse.Ignore both test kits for a minute and let me ask you this. How does the tank look to you? Are there any issues? If so, what are they?
Basic follow up questions. Have you run back to back tests using the Hanna checker? Are the reagents good and not expired? Have you used a reference solution?
ICP is a nice tool but too many hobbyists are using them as the defacto standard. Do you know their calibration frequency? Do you know if the systems are cleaned before, and after, every ICP test? Have you heard that some respected hobbyists have sent in multiple samples using water drawn at the same time to the same ICP vendor and got different results?
I'm sure you know this but figured I'd throw it out there. So how does your display look? My phosphate according to Hanna flashes 200
G’sReef
Active Member
I just so happen to have some Chemi-Pure Elite on hand. It’s only sized to treat 50 gallons so it should drop it a slower rate than the size I actually need for my tank. But how will I know when my levels are low if I can’t trust the Hanna?
EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal
Just another girl who likes fish
What are your other parameters? .2 ppm PO4 is high, but may not be as bad as you think, especially if you can't say for sure how long it's been at that level. I appreciate that your tank is showing you that things are out of whack, but getting a full picture of what's going on with your overall water quality/ nutrients will allow the experts here to better help you with a plan.
EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal
Just another girl who likes fish
PO4 remover with no history of killing fish = macroalgae
Mr. Mojo Rising
5000 Club Member
how can you have phosphate of 18? I'm pretty sure the hanna checker doesnt go that high, even API phosphate test only goes up to 10. And ICP test says phosphate is 200? Thats not even realistic.
Something is very wrong with either the tests or the water, but no information at all provided about your tank, so cannot speculate further.
Something is very wrong with either the tests or the water, but no information at all provided about your tank, so cannot speculate further.
G’sReef
Active Member
It’s the URL Phosphorus Hanna checker which reads in ppb instead of ppm. 18 I believe converts to .05 ppm and the 291 converts to .89 ppm
G’sReef
Active Member
G’sReef
Active Member
I believe at the time I test and got the 18 ppb for phosphate the rest of my parameters seemed pretty normal….
Calcium 440
Alk 8.8
Mag 1340
PO4 18ppb
Nitr 12.4
Salinity 1.025
All Hanna checkers except the Mag, everything came back higher than this on ICP test.
+1 on advice given about assessing the tank before you do anything rash. That said, if you do need to lower phosphate, water changes will help at first but depending on how much phosphate has leached into rocks, etc, it will linger. I have had good results using brightwell phosphate-e.
Along the lines of AReefero1's post: so you have two tests results with widely varying results,which one is actually correct? Are either correct? (You can get a PO4 standard online from a variety of sources.)
FWIW Hanna ultra low doesn't actually test for phosphorus. It only tests for PO4 then uses a conversion number to give the equivelent phosphorus the amount of PO4 represents. It will be off as it's not testing any organic forms of phosphorus (like phospholipids).
I think ICP tests are a usful tool fo rhobbyests but they're not perfect. Here's a good article on the limitations of ICP
Here's a good paper on phosphorus used by photosynthetic marine organisms:
Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts
Fig. 4 from the above paper
And cryptic sponges in your system are messing with it also:
BActeria and Sponges
Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle
www.pnas.org
Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges
www.pnas.org
FWIW Hanna ultra low doesn't actually test for phosphorus. It only tests for PO4 then uses a conversion number to give the equivelent phosphorus the amount of PO4 represents. It will be off as it's not testing any organic forms of phosphorus (like phospholipids).
I think ICP tests are a usful tool fo rhobbyests but they're not perfect. Here's a good article on the limitations of ICP
Skeptical Reefkeeping 12: Triton Lab ICP-OES Testing of a Certified Artificial Saltwater Standard
From ReefsMagazine By Rich Ross and Dr. Chris Maupin At MACNA 25 in Denver, the potential for the new ICP-OES aquarium water testing by Triton Lab in Germany made many saltwater hobbyists swoon. Th…
packedhead.net
Here's a good paper on phosphorus used by photosynthetic marine organisms:
Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts
Fig. 4 from the above paper
And cryptic sponges in your system are messing with it also:
BActeria and Sponges
Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle
Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle
Marine sponges are ubiquitous colonizers of shallow, clear-water environments in the oceans (1, 2). Sponges have emerged as significant mediators of biogeochemical fluxes in coastal zones by virtue of respiring organic matter and facilitating both the consumption and release of nutrients (3, 4)...
Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges
Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges
Coral reefs are highly productive ecosystems that raise a conundrum called “Darwin’s paradox”: How can high production flourish in low-nutrient conditions? We show here that in three abundant Caribbean sponges, the granules that have been commonly observed in sponge tissue for decades are...
Yes my skimmer leaked into my tank. Not good. Phosphates up to 2.0. I added media pads by Seapora, a hang of the back reactor with cheato, and of course large water change. Noticeable coral health now. Have not tested again only been running this way for 2 days
G’sReef
Active Member
I’ve seen reviews on Phosphate E killing fish and corals. Is it possible they could have been using it wrong?
G’sReef
Active Member
Along the lines of AReefero1's post: so you have two tests results with widely varying results,which one is actually correct? Are either correct? (You can get a PO4 standard online from a variety of sources.)
FWIW Hanna ultra low doesn't actually test for phosphorus. It only tests for PO4 then uses a conversion number to give the equivelent phosphorus the amount of PO4 represents. It will be off as it's not testing any organic forms of phosphorus (like phospholipids).
I think ICP tests are a usful tool fo rhobbyests but they're not perfect. Here's a good article on the limitations of ICP
Skeptical Reefkeeping 12: Triton Lab ICP-OES Testing of a Certified Artificial Saltwater Standard
From ReefsMagazine By Rich Ross and Dr. Chris Maupin At MACNA 25 in Denver, the potential for the new ICP-OES aquarium water testing by Triton Lab in Germany made many saltwater hobbyists swoon. Th…packedhead.net
Here's a good paper on phosphorus used by photosynthetic marine organisms:
Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts
Fig. 4 from the above paper
And cryptic sponges in your system are messing with it also:
BActeria and Sponges
Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle
Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle
Marine sponges are ubiquitous colonizers of shallow, clear-water environments in the oceans (1, 2). Sponges have emerged as significant mediators of biogeochemical fluxes in coastal zones by virtue of respiring organic matter and facilitating both the consumption and release of nutrients (3, 4)...
Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges
Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges
Coral reefs are highly productive ecosystems that raise a conundrum called “Darwin’s paradox”: How can high production flourish in low-nutrient conditions? We show here that in three abundant Caribbean sponges, the granules that have been commonly observed in sponge tissue for decades are...
So are you saying that the Hanna is misleading me and should not be used. My sump has alot of those pineapple spong
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It maybe extreme, but I drip (1 per second) phosphate e diluted 50:1 into my overflow, caught by 5 micron sox. Never had a problem and used this method 50 times over the years.
Must run a skimmer.
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