Phosphate remover and haze on glass

[LunaReefs]

Hello Randy @Randy Holmes-Farley can you help me find the solution to how or why phosphate remover is affecting my 3/4" glass? Tank age is 8 months and total water volume is +/- 185G. I began dosing 2 caps of Lanthanum Chloride, roughly 2-3 times per month, 3 months ago. Method: Dosed in filter roller chamber, then to the skimmer, then to a small DIY refugium and on to the return chamber. I've seen Magic Eraser as a solution to remove it but man, this stuff is brutal. Photos attached. Thank you for your insight!

 

[JumboShrimp]

Interested in Randy's thoughts as well.

 

[Kooma]

Looks like the resulting product of lanthanum chloride, LaP04 precipitate. I would have thought the filter roller would grab these but maybe it’s not fine enough.

 

[LunaReefs]

Looks like the resulting product of lanthanum chloride, LaP04 precipitate. I would have thought the filter roller would grab these but maybe it’s not fine enough.

Agreed. I'm pretty surprised to be honest.

 

[Kooma]

Agreed. I'm pretty surprised to be honest.

What is the micron of the filter roller? A quick google tells me you need something around 10 micron.

Also found the lanthanum chloride could be a neurotoxin, be careful handling that stuff, it’s nasty

 

[LunaReefs]

What is the micron of the filter roller? A quick google tells me you need something around 10 micron.

Also found the lanthanum chloride could be a neurotoxin, be careful handling that stuff, it’s nasty

Specs say 200

 

[LunaReefs]

@Randy Holmes-Farley Part 2 to this thread is: When trying to remove this with a Magic Eraser, I think it's safe to assume that I should add some floss to the sump (don't have a 5-10 micron sock) so that this doesn't immediately reappear, yes?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I agree that it may be lanthanum phosphate or carbonate. I’m reluctant to recommend the magic eraser since I worry about the released particles the eraser itself. That said, I know folks use it.

 

[areefer01]

It is also an indication of too high of an application dose. This is one reason why some recommend the use of a 5 or 10 micron sock to dose the product. Also a slower application instead of a single shot.

You can do a search here, or on the greater web, and look for slief lanthanum chloride and see a decent guide on application using a iv/feed bag, sock, drip rate, and dilution. Pretty decent process in my opinion.

 

[LunaReefs]

It is also an indication of too high of an application dose. This is one reason why some recommend the use of a 5 or 10 micron sock to dose the product. Also a slower application instead of a single shot.

You can do a search here, or on the greater web, and look for slief lanthanum chloride and see a decent guide on application using a iv/feed bag, sock, drip rate, and dilution. Pretty decent process in my opinion.

So interesting since I've only used half, or less of the recommended dose this entire time. I'm wondering if this is brand specific. I don't want to put them on blast and am awaiting their reply on this. What a hassle though

 

[LunaReefs]

I agree that it may be lanthanum phosphate or carbonate. I’m reluctant to recommend the magic eraser since I worry about the released particles the eraser itself. That said, I know folks use it.

Thanks, Randy. I don't see how else to resolve it though. Taking a razor blade to 12' of glass (on a brand new tank ) isn't exactly something I have time for, lol.

 

[Isaac Alves]

What brand are you using?

I’ve seen this in my office tank using Phosphate-E from Brightwell.

 

[LunaReefs]

What brand are you using?

I’ve seen this in my office tank using Phosphate-E from Brightwell.

Bingo. Are you still using it and how did you deal with the haze?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks, Randy. I don't see how else to resolve it though. Taking a razor blade to 12' of glass (on a brand new tank ) isn't exactly something I have time for, lol.

That’s what I would try, but it may not work.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Bingo. Are you still using it and how did you deal with the haze?

Just an fyi, the brand of lanthanum seems unlikely to make any difference.

 

[Isaac Alves]

Bingo. Are you still using it and how did you deal with the haze?

Office tank is simply a 40 breeder Aqueon brand. I ended up scraping it with a razor. Since that experience I started doing a small manual dose directly into the skimmer neck only...at a much smaller dose from what I was doing before -- only doing 2mls daily until I brought the P04 down to my target. And this worked. And that's been the case for a couple years.

So I think I'm dosing only enough to mix up quickly into the skimmer cone and the flocculant is then heavy enough to get caught up into the bubbles. And I only dose directly into the skimmer neck --- not surprisingly that's where I see the hard build up forming.

So for my larger Cade system I didn't want to ruin the glass. So when it came time to manage P04 I did the same practice -- only dosing very little, when needed, directly into the skimmer neck over several days as opposed to a larger dose all at once. I also moved to using Rowaphos in a reactor to help maintain P04 levels at my target of .1-.15

 

[LunaReefs]

Office tank is simply a 40 breeder Aqueon brand. I ended up scraping it with a razor. Since that experience I started doing a small manual dose directly into the skimmer neck only...at a much smaller dose from what I was doing before -- only doing 2mls daily until I brought the P04 down to my target. And this worked. And that's been the case for a couple years.

So I think I'm dosing only enough to mix up quickly into the skimmer cone and the flocculant is then heavy enough to get caught up into the bubbles. And I only dose directly into the skimmer neck --- not surprisingly that's where I see the hard build up forming.

So for my larger Cade system I didn't want to ruin the glass. So when it came time to manage P04 I did the same practice -- only dosing very little, when needed, directly into the skimmer neck over several days as opposed to a larger dose all at once. I also moved to using Rowaphos in a reactor to help maintain P04 levels at my target of .1-.15

Gotcha. I think you nailed it with the small doses, spread out. This is obviously the best way for the corals as well. Are you still using BW? I think the super fine 5-10 micron sock is also the answer. I tested the Magic Eraser last night on half of one panel and it seems to have worked, albeit with a ton of elbow grease. Thanks for sharing your experience

 

[LunaReefs]

Just an fyi, the brand of lanthanum seems unlikely to make any difference.

Thanks, Randy. Is your specific concern with the Magic Eraser related to fish or corals?

 

[RoanokeReef]

Thanks, Randy. Is your specific concern with the Magic Eraser elated to fish or corals?

I've used these for years on my glass tanks, no scratches or any issue with my corals Amazon product ASIN B0B93LW5SX

 

[LunaReefs]

I've used these for years on my glass tanks, no scratches or any issue with my corals Amazon product ASIN B0B93LW5SX

Good info! Thanks for letting me know.