Please Stop Stating This Is An Expensive Hobby.

[Diesel]

IMO, discussions are great and that's why we are on here in the first place.
This thread is not going any where and we keep on beating a dead horse.
There're plenty of threads here in the build sections that it will show what needs to be done to be successful in this hobby.
That said I suggest the OP should maybe start a new thread as "reeftanks on a budget" in that case you have a discussion going that will attract future hobbyist who wants a taste of it before the jump into the deep or not.
I know for a fact that a lot of hobbyist started out this way (looking at stars) before they realized it can add up a lot to be walking on the moon. (love that expression)
And remember "go slow and if you think you're going slow slow down even more, only bad things happen in this hobby when you move to fast.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

No but it's expensive compared to the many hobbies that cost nothing. It's all relative. Make under $10 bucks an hour while living alone and it's a very expensive hobby even if another doesn't think $300 is a lot. No you don't need 10 grand, but you do need money and it's not just a one time expense either.

I definitely agree with the above. All things are relative, but if we make that statement, then ANYTHING becomes expensive relative to someone. I also agree that there are some other hobbies that are far less expensive and only involve initial investment...however, these are few. Most hobbies do require continual investment in order to continue enjoying them.

My thought was that most of the people I have heard say "this hobby is expensive" ARE dropping price tags in the 3k, 5k, or even 10k range...and this hobby does not require that type of initial investment...you CAN spend that much if you'd like, but it isn't necessary. I would say that in the end, keeping a saltwater tank ends up costing about as much as keeping many other pets (especially when considering monthly upkeep). Again, a person can spend more, but ultimately if they're doing water changes and feeding their fish, then these are the biggest upkeep investments. Also, someone mentioned the electric bill, I'd agree that if you're running a large reef or if you're using halides, your electric bill is going to take a hit. However, if they start out with a 40B (about the size I'd recommend for most people just getting started), and go with LEDs or even T5s, the electric bill doesn't have to go through the roof.

When someone asks me about the cost of keeping up a reef, I tell them that it is an investment but can be done on a budget if 1) they're willing to shop around a bit for bargains and 2) they're willing to keep up with maintenance. I also give them a basic list of equipment and talk a little bit about maintenance. My goal is to give them the idea of how much work HAS to be done, but at the same time empower them.

With most people, if you lead with the line "it's expensive!", they're not thinking "expensive" relative to Charley Brown, they're thinking "expensive" relative to themselves...regardless of their budget. This means that whatever the word "reasonable" means to them is now out the window. This is the reason I say it is elitist to say that this hobby is "expensive" to someone thinking about getting in. It requires continual investment (as does any pet) and there are several pieces of equipment that you'll definitely need to get depending on what you're wanting to keep. IMO it can be done reasonably if someone is willing to do their due diligence to save some cash.

 

[olesalty]

Too funny! When people ask my wife she calls it her mercedes she cant drive. I would never save receipts or began to add up the $$ I've spent in 6.5yrs. I also find it odd that everyone that comes to my house ask about cost...why!! BTW we will never own a mercedes.

hahaha mine calls it her trip to Ireland.

 

[tyler1503]

However, tyler1503, a cold water tank should have a chiller IMHO, you cannot maintain temperatures without one ...if its truly a cold water species tank. I also assume you boat out a mile or 2 from the shore to get clean seawater, and that costs $ for gas, insurance, cost of a boat, and time.

It wasn't exactly a "cold water" tank, but temperatures were far below tropical conditions. I collected fish during the cold winter months where a lot of these species thrive. But they also thrive in the very same waters that reach above tropical temps during summer. These waters are 2 feet deep maximum, so the temp swings are pretty crazy.
As for the water, the LFS I was working at (and living a 1 minute walk from) gave water away to repeat customers for free. We did the math and we only had to sell it for $0.01 per litre to break even, so there was no need to charge for it. Water, free. Boat hire, not needed. Time, I waste enough of it to not worry about that even on the slightest lol
So it was locally collected (I could elaborate on this, but don't wana clog up this thread too much) but it was from the LFS. I did collect my own water occasionally, but the bulk was LFS local water.

 

[Mmsetta]

I remember a member here told me not to even start this hobby unless I am willing to put out at least $1500 to start. I was nearly discouraged from starting. But, I used it as a reason to get my tank perfect. A year later, and about $1500 into it, my tank is nearly perfect! Ha! But if I had just started with a decent skimmer, a good wave maker and proper lighting I could have gotten away with about $250 which is what I paid for all three (thanks craigslist!). Add a little more for rock and there you have it.

 

[Rob Top1]

What kills me is people saying its hard. This once was true sure. But we have a better understanding of the biological physical chemical environment. Fish and coral are sourced better and shipped faster. Equipment and feeds have vastly improved as well. I tell people it isn't hard but it is expensive. As noted not as expensive as some hobbies but still I hate to admit what I spent these past couple months. However its all relative. My kids are feed and clothed bills are paid wife is pampered THEN I get the change.

 

[Salmo]

I have about $1600 invested in my 125 not including livestock. Im looking into an Apex and new lights and it can get expensive!

 

[thejuggernaut]

Nice stuff cost money and that's never going to change. You cannot have a reef tank for $100.00 dollars. Heck a cheap bucket of salt is $50.00. T5s are about the cheapest acceptable light source around and just 4 bulbs is over $100.00. You need $1000s in disposable income to have anything even remotely resembling a reef tank. So calling people ignorant, stubborn and stupid for not considering a cinder block tank stand in their living room acceptable, is not blunt, it's ignorant, stubborn and stupid.

Digging a hole in my backyard, putting a toilet seat on top of it and calling it a bathroom remodel doesn't mean that a real bathroom is cheap.

Sorry to put it so bluntly, but it's true

 

[van7271]

This hobby is only as expensive as you make it. The initial investment is going to cost, as with any hobby you might start, but even that initial investment can be controlled with just a little common sense and research. Just like anything else, if you buy quality equipment and take good care of it, it will take care of you. I have some of my original equipment still running on my tank for 9 year. After the tank is really stable and mature, 6mos to a year, the system pretty much takes care of itself with regular water changes. As far as live stock you have complete control of that. Don't buy fish with your heart, buy them with your head. Every coral I have was started as a 5 to 25 dollar frag and all are growing and thriving. You don't have to spend a ton of cash to enjoy this hobby. Remember the point of this hobby is to build a sustainable micro environment. So as time goes on your system should begin to sustain itself with less effort from you as time goes on.
So let's not scare others from the hobby but help other understand how to get the most out of the hobby.

 

[NanaReefer]

Nice stuff cost money and that's never going to change. You cannot have a reef tank for $100.00 dollars. Heck a cheap bucket of salt is $50.00. T5s are about the cheapest acceptable light source around and just 4 bulbs is over $100.00. You need $1000s in disposable income to have anything even remotely resembling a reef tank. So calling people ignorant, stubborn and stupid for not considering a cinder block tank stand in their living room acceptable, is not blunt, it's ignorant, stubborn and stupid.

Digging a hole in my backyard, putting a toilet seat on top of it and calling it a bathroom remodel doesn't mean that a real bathroom is cheap.

Sorry to put it so bluntly, but it's true

My sentiments exactly. Just couldn't sat so without getting irate! Thanks

 

[ingtar_shinowa]

I spent probably $30-60 a year on the hobby for a decade. Then I started to feed my passion and build in a little more and more into my budget. I'm glad I made for this room because now I can satisfy my chalice addiction.

 

[Blackcat1]

I really am not trying to be philosophic here although I will likely be told to get off my soapbox! I am really an advocate for those that are truly prepared to experience the thrill of owning a SWT. Just as in any avocational activity (using my big words tonight) what may be a a hobby for some, is a passion for others and literally an obsession for the rest. Hobbies, by their very nature are an unnecessary financial expenditure. It should go without saying...hobby = $ or even $$$$$ no matter what it is. And for those that are saying some hobbies are free...I can't think of a single one...yes, even that one ain't free if you think about it

I am not far traveled although I do watch Nat Geo. Have not seen many folks in 3rd world countries actually sitting back with their favorite brew and enjoying there aquariums or even walking the aisles of their LFS for that matter. Fish market maybe...LFS, doubtful!! So yes, does owning a SW system cost $. **** straight it does!!! Some may consider it expensive although, I bet even those folks view most costs; just the price of ownership. Unlike RC planes, trains or even automobiles; (overly obvious statement coming) these things in our tanks are living creatures. Personally, instead of using cost, or "expensiveness" as a pro or con variable, I think the question to pose to those that may be interested in partaking of this specific activity is: Do you understand that your aquarium inhabitants are going to be totally dependent on you daily for their very existence and with that are you prepared to spend or do EVERYTHING within your power to ensure that they survive and thrive???

Not sure what my point is again...oh yes; I think the point is; owning a saltwater tank, or reef, is going to increase your cost of ownership. If you just want to look at a fish in a tank...get a betta in a nano. Although even that simple betta-tank set up will cost "something"...whether it is in labor of maintenance, livestock replacement or equipment.

End statement about the expense thing - I promise!! I think it is fair to say to any wannabee: You will be tasked to provide a stable environment in which the life (not counting cyano and hair algae) can thrive, being able to continuously provide this will likely cost you more than you anticipate, although in the end it usually is worth it.

Happy reefin'

 

[Diesel]

A quote from a story that I found.
Very educated and refreshing where we are in this hobby!

Hard Truth #1: It’s not cheap I often find those moving from the freshwater aquariums, to marine aquariums, quiet disillusioned about costs. Everything on the marine side is more expensive, from livestock to filtration. Tanks that are pre-drilled and designed for reef ecosystems cost more, and sumps and circulation pumps all add to the massive bill a properly designed aquarium system can create. Entering the hobby, with the mindset of doing things cheaply, can often lead to long term issues. Equipment designed for the bare minimum is often inadequate, it wears down quickly, and more often than not, needs upgraded as the tank evolves. While there are lots of different additives, some do absolutely nothing, others can do more harm than good, while a select few are vital. While a seasoned DIY’er can cut some costs by making equipment themselves, most people entering the hobby or looking to step-up their system, need to hunt for good equipment. Specialty gear, like the offerings of Eco Tech Marine, is even more money. These companies are small, and cannot mass produce products, therefore contributing to a high out of pocket cost. If the price tag, and not the reviews and recommendations of expert aquarists, is what dictates what kind of equipment you buy, a recipe for disaster could be brewing. In the same breath, taking time to research what is needed to meet your goals, can offer a comprehensive plan, which will detail what you need, where you can save a few bucks and help make sure you are buying something that will last. Reality is, even the cheap stuff is expensive, and if a piece of gear doesn’t meet your expectations, the chance of getting a decent percentage of what you spent out of it, is slim to none. Lighting is one area that requires copious planning. Lighting systems capable of maintaining corals range in cost from a few hundred dollars to well over several thousand. Do your homework and make sure you understand exactly what you’re diving into financially. (No pun intended) Since nearly everything for marine aquariums is powered by electricity, you can guarantee the presence of a reef aquarium(s) will impact your power bill.

Well, read the rest of the hard truth yourself,

11 Hard Truths About Marine Aquariums - reefs.com

 

[ingtar_shinowa]

Diesel, talk about acros now!

 

[Daniel@R2R]

A quote from a story that I found.
Very educated and refreshing where we are in this hobby!

Hard Truth #1: It’s not cheap I often find those moving from the freshwater aquariums, to marine aquariums, quiet disillusioned about costs. Everything on the marine side is more expensive, from livestock to filtration. Tanks that are pre-drilled and designed for reef ecosystems cost more, and sumps and circulation pumps all add to the massive bill a properly designed aquarium system can create. Entering the hobby, with the mindset of doing things cheaply, can often lead to long term issues. Equipment designed for the bare minimum is often inadequate, it wears down quickly, and more often than not, needs upgraded as the tank evolves. While there are lots of different additives, some do absolutely nothing, others can do more harm than good, while a select few are vital. While a seasoned DIY’er can cut some costs by making equipment themselves, most people entering the hobby or looking to step-up their system, need to hunt for good equipment. Specialty gear, like the offerings of Eco Tech Marine, is even more money. These companies are small, and cannot mass produce products, therefore contributing to a high out of pocket cost. If the price tag, and not the reviews and recommendations of expert aquarists, is what dictates what kind of equipment you buy, a recipe for disaster could be brewing. In the same breath, taking time to research what is needed to meet your goals, can offer a comprehensive plan, which will detail what you need, where you can save a few bucks and help make sure you are buying something that will last. Reality is, even the cheap stuff is expensive, and if a piece of gear doesn’t meet your expectations, the chance of getting a decent percentage of what you spent out of it, is slim to none. Lighting is one area that requires copious planning. Lighting systems capable of maintaining corals range in cost from a few hundred dollars to well over several thousand. Do your homework and make sure you understand exactly what you’re diving into financially. (No pun intended) Since nearly everything for marine aquariums is powered by electricity, you can guarantee the presence of a reef aquarium(s) will impact your power bill.

Well, read the rest of the hard truth yourself,

11 Hard Truths About Marine Aquariums - reefs.com

Not a terrible article, although his ratio for RODI to waste water is way off. He also tends toward a dismal outlook. For example, all of my waste water gets used to do laundry, and is generally about a 1:1 ratio. So my water isn't wasted, and I'd dare say some of his other points are equally overstated.

 

[thejuggernaut]

A quote from a story that I found.
Very educated and refreshing where we are in this hobby!

Hard Truth #1: It’s not cheap I often find those moving from the freshwater aquariums, to marine aquariums, quiet disillusioned about costs. Everything on the marine side is more expensive, from livestock to filtration. Tanks that are pre-drilled and designed for reef ecosystems cost more, and sumps and circulation pumps all add to the massive bill a properly designed aquarium system can create. Entering the hobby, with the mindset of doing things cheaply, can often lead to long term issues. Equipment designed for the bare minimum is often inadequate, it wears down quickly, and more often than not, needs upgraded as the tank evolves. While there are lots of different additives, some do absolutely nothing, others can do more harm than good, while a select few are vital. While a seasoned DIY’er can cut some costs by making equipment themselves, most people entering the hobby or looking to step-up their system, need to hunt for good equipment. Specialty gear, like the offerings of Eco Tech Marine, is even more money. These companies are small, and cannot mass produce products, therefore contributing to a high out of pocket cost. If the price tag, and not the reviews and recommendations of expert aquarists, is what dictates what kind of equipment you buy, a recipe for disaster could be brewing. In the same breath, taking time to research what is needed to meet your goals, can offer a comprehensive plan, which will detail what you need, where you can save a few bucks and help make sure you are buying something that will last. Reality is, even the cheap stuff is expensive, and if a piece of gear doesn’t meet your expectations, the chance of getting a decent percentage of what you spent out of it, is slim to none. Lighting is one area that requires copious planning. Lighting systems capable of maintaining corals range in cost from a few hundred dollars to well over several thousand. Do your homework and make sure you understand exactly what you’re diving into financially. (No pun intended) Since nearly everything for marine aquariums is powered by electricity, you can guarantee the presence of a reef aquarium(s) will impact your power bill.

Well, read the rest of the hard truth yourself,

11 Hard Truths About Marine Aquariums - reefs.com

That article should be mandatory reading for anyone wanting to start a tank. Especially the part about space and quarantine. One thing they didn't include is time for research. I figure you should read on these forums for months before buying a thing. Having a mentor who's tank you admire and who you can ask questions and bounce ideas off will probably save a truck full of money, setbacks and poor animals dying a horrible death.

 

[ingtar_shinowa]

That article should be mandatory reading for anyone wanting to start a tank. Especially the part about space and quarantine. One thing they didn't include is time for research. I figure you should read on these forums for months before buying a thing. Having a mentor who's tank you admire and who you can ask questions and bounce ideas off will probably save a truck full of money, setbacks and poor animals dying a horrible death.

Thats amazing advice right there!

 

[Diesel]

Being overstated can help sooner or later in this hobby.
My car has 16 airbags, as I'm IMO a good driver I'm not saying that that is overstated.
But I see your point.
Never the less, don't think to light over this hobby, even me make mistakes and I still do.
Although pretty sure I can call them hiccups even if you lose 20k in livestock...............ugh!!

 

[tyler1503]

Nice stuff cost money and that's never going to change. You cannot have a reef tank for $100.00 dollars. Heck a cheap bucket of salt is $50.00. T5s are about the cheapest acceptable light source around and just 4 bulbs is over $100.00. You need $1000s in disposable income to have anything even remotely resembling a reef tank. So calling people ignorant, stubborn and stupid for not considering a cinder block tank stand in their living room acceptable, is not blunt, it's ignorant, stubborn and stupid.

Digging a hole in my backyard, putting a toilet seat on top of it and calling it a bathroom remodel doesn't mean that a real bathroom is cheap.

Sorry to put it so bluntly, but it's true

I'm guessing that's a stab at me. If so, then that was low. If not, then I apologize if you've just so happened to choose the same phrasing I did, but I think that was specifically aimed at me and what I said. This is a place for different opinions and perspectives to be shared regarding the one thing everyone here has in common. Marine tanks. Not a place to start arguments.
I could retaliate and tell you how wrong you are in saying I am "ignorant, stubborn and stupid". But I will not let this get out of hand and have the pair of us potentially banned from R2R.
I'm here to meet fellow reefers, share and discuss our tanks, ask and answer a few questions and speak about cool marine tank related things. I don't want to argue with people who are going to jump down my throat and tell me I am "stupid" for believing it's possible to spend less than $10k+ on a box.
One last thing, making up ridiculous analogies that go beyond exaggeration won't help you prove a point. I'm not saying "yea, just dump that fish in an old ice cream container and throw a few handfuls of cooking salt in the tap water! Brand new tank, $5!"

 

[ingtar_shinowa]

I could retaliate and tell you how wrong you are in saying I am "ignorant, stubborn and stupid". But I will not let this get out of hand

Its totally not calling thejuggernaut ignorant, stubborn, or stupid because it in quotations. I applaud your restraint Italics is 'internet" for sarcasm.