macara.brooks
Community Member
Hello I am wondering what math and science is behind the plenum depth for a fish tank that's 130 g
plenum depth for a fish tank thats 130 g
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macara.brooks
Community Member
Im sorry I'm a bit unsure I believe jaubert
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macara.brooks
Community Member
I have pipe under my gravel with a void space
GARRIGA
2500 Club Member
This is what I think of when running a plenum. Are you trying to replicate an anoxic filter?
Are you running air through those pipes or just letting them sit there similar to placing an undergravel plate?
https://reefs.com/magazine/jaubert-s-method-the-monaco-system-defined-and-refined/
Are you running air through those pipes or just letting them sit there similar to placing an undergravel plate?
https://reefs.com/magazine/jaubert-s-method-the-monaco-system-defined-and-refined/
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macara.brooks
Community Member
They are just sitting under no air underneath and no I don't believe so this is just how my parents had it set up. It was their tank
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macara.brooks
Community Member
I have two layers of gravel top is thin crushed but not like sand and the other is more small rock like
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macara.brooks
Community Member
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macara.brooks
Community Member
Under the Trim about a inch pipe lays under it
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With many years talking to Bob Gomes directly back in the day...and running Plenum systems in several aquariums over the years.
I can speak directly...on the subject.
First and foremost the idea of a plenum systems is to create a void water space where air DOES NOT re-enter the area....nor water is EVER replaced
That being said if you take for example a 24" wide x 48" long aquarium...you will want to build out of lighting eggcrate black or white does not matter a enclosure that is 3" to 4" from every side of the tank sides and approx 2" high. Around the outer edges of the eggcrate...then wrap it with nylon window screen (not metal..had to say it). I used plastic bio balls that were barrel shaped ever 3 to 4 inches to firm up the platform so it did not cave in and firm up the corners.
Place it on the bare bottom of the empty tank then place in my case (Special Grade live sand nothing with tiny grains) ontop of it 3" to 3 1/2" deep. Also take in consideration your stocking. Wasses and sand sifting Gobies can dig down and ruin this plenum.
Add salt water using a large plate over the area as you add water...smooth out the sand and add live rock. In 4 to 6 weeks..your plenum will be active. Never siphon down to the mesh area only top 1/2" of sand.
I have in the past ...had amazing luck once the tank cycled with this method. Many don't like the deep sandbed but it depends on the the height of the tank.
Any other questions...just ask...have done plenum tanks since 1980..till 2018. Now I run 1" of sand...with a shallower tank for less arm swimming. Easier on maintenance at my age..lol.
I can speak directly...on the subject.
First and foremost the idea of a plenum systems is to create a void water space where air DOES NOT re-enter the area....nor water is EVER replaced
That being said if you take for example a 24" wide x 48" long aquarium...you will want to build out of lighting eggcrate black or white does not matter a enclosure that is 3" to 4" from every side of the tank sides and approx 2" high. Around the outer edges of the eggcrate...then wrap it with nylon window screen (not metal..had to say it). I used plastic bio balls that were barrel shaped ever 3 to 4 inches to firm up the platform so it did not cave in and firm up the corners.
Place it on the bare bottom of the empty tank then place in my case (Special Grade live sand nothing with tiny grains) ontop of it 3" to 3 1/2" deep. Also take in consideration your stocking. Wasses and sand sifting Gobies can dig down and ruin this plenum.
Add salt water using a large plate over the area as you add water...smooth out the sand and add live rock. In 4 to 6 weeks..your plenum will be active. Never siphon down to the mesh area only top 1/2" of sand.
I have in the past ...had amazing luck once the tank cycled with this method. Many don't like the deep sandbed but it depends on the the height of the tank.
Any other questions...just ask...have done plenum tanks since 1980..till 2018. Now I run 1" of sand...with a shallower tank for less arm swimming. Easier on maintenance at my age..lol.
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GARRIGA
2500 Club Member
That appears to be some form of Jaubert. Perhaps those better versed with that application can chime in as my approach was driving water through it. Water entered in the front then worked it's way back being pulled by the HOB.
Read the article on Jaubert as I believe that best applies to what you are asking. Don't recall sand depth and have never seen a calculation for it with some modification between original Monaco design and DSB. Neither of which seem to be in bode these days and something I stopped researching few years back.
Read the article on Jaubert as I believe that best applies to what you are asking. Don't recall sand depth and have never seen a calculation for it with some modification between original Monaco design and DSB. Neither of which seem to be in bode these days and something I stopped researching few years back.
GARRIGA
2500 Club Member
Older I get simpler everything needs to get :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing:
Here is an old write up I did on BRS - Oct 11 2007
I just thought I would give some background and feedback on the subject:
By no means am I an expert or a know it all, with that said.
I have had several Plenum systems in the past and I am currently running 2 now.
My current 55 Gallon Soft tank has been up with a Plenum for 6 years.
My Current 65 Gallon Hard tank has been up with a Plenum for 1 1/2 years.
Both systems interestingly enough have tested fairly the same.. I use the same make up water and change water in both systems on the same day or week... 2 twice a month. Usually a 15-20 Gallon water change is done each time.
Readings are as follows:
55 Gal Sal 1.023-1.024 PH 8.2 Temp 77 F ORP 425 Alk 7-8
Am <0.1 Phos <0.02 Nitrite .02 Nitrate .02
65 Gal Sal 1.024-1.025 PH 8.17 Temp 80 F ORP 411 Alk 7-8
Am <0.1 Phos <0.02 Nitrite .02 Nitrate .02
Both my systems do NOT have a refugium and I do NOT use any carbon or UV.... yes I add calcium and reef additives from time to time.
I do use a Phos ban reactor on my Hard tank... because of the heavy feeding.
I do not remove any water from the plenum as suggested by some.
I do not replace sand with clean sand as suggested by some.
My findings are the plenum takes about 6 months to become fully active and after 9 months the tank goes into a metamorphose that everything starts to grow, expand and I have never had ick or fish loss do to any disease. After 6 years the system is maintaining it is environment as it did when it first matured. So DSB or the sandless systems NO WAY !!!
Note: what works for some may not work for everyone.... hope you enjoyed my write up.
*Note: some of my designing the sand bed came from personal conversations with Sam Gamble and Bob Gomez who I talked to both of them for several hours on the phone before Plenums were a semi-common place in the 80's to 90's.
I just thought I would give some background and feedback on the subject:
By no means am I an expert or a know it all, with that said.
I have had several Plenum systems in the past and I am currently running 2 now.
My current 55 Gallon Soft tank has been up with a Plenum for 6 years.
My Current 65 Gallon Hard tank has been up with a Plenum for 1 1/2 years.
Both systems interestingly enough have tested fairly the same.. I use the same make up water and change water in both systems on the same day or week... 2 twice a month. Usually a 15-20 Gallon water change is done each time.
Readings are as follows:
55 Gal Sal 1.023-1.024 PH 8.2 Temp 77 F ORP 425 Alk 7-8
Am <0.1 Phos <0.02 Nitrite .02 Nitrate .02
65 Gal Sal 1.024-1.025 PH 8.17 Temp 80 F ORP 411 Alk 7-8
Am <0.1 Phos <0.02 Nitrite .02 Nitrate .02
Both my systems do NOT have a refugium and I do NOT use any carbon or UV.... yes I add calcium and reef additives from time to time.
I do use a Phos ban reactor on my Hard tank... because of the heavy feeding.
I do not remove any water from the plenum as suggested by some.
I do not replace sand with clean sand as suggested by some.
My findings are the plenum takes about 6 months to become fully active and after 9 months the tank goes into a metamorphose that everything starts to grow, expand and I have never had ick or fish loss do to any disease. After 6 years the system is maintaining it is environment as it did when it first matured. So DSB or the sandless systems NO WAY !!!
Note: what works for some may not work for everyone.... hope you enjoyed my write up.
*Note: some of my designing the sand bed came from personal conversations with Sam Gamble and Bob Gomez who I talked to both of them for several hours on the phone before Plenums were a semi-common place in the 80's to 90's.
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I'm old enough to remember the plenums of the 80's, and I'm just not so sure how popular this methodology is anymore. Are people really still doing this? Are there not much easier ways now? Genuinely just asking.
Subsea
7500 Club Member
I ran a Jaubert plenum for 20 years and 5 years ago I removed all but 2” of aragonite substrate. I then ran a pump discharge into the plenum and reversed flowed up thru substrate. I emulated @Paul B who emulated fresh water cichlid hatcheries, back in the day of
“old school”.
“old school”.
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GARRIGA
2500 Club Member
Curious what the substrate looked like after 15 years. Any hardening? I'm expecting no detritus found?
Subsea
7500 Club Member
Prior to moving tank, while pushing higher alkalinity, I caused some sand bed binding. Sand bed at 6”
After 20 years, there was detritus. However, prior to introduction of Melanarious Wrasse, the detrivores maintained sandbed.
@GARRIGA
However, PaulB has pictures of his sandbed & plenum after 47 years of use.
The initial concept of Jaubert Plenum was to enhance denitrification bacteria by providing a large surface area of reducing oxygen gradient. In a mature reef tank, my corals prefer ammonia and will outcompete macro algae every time if I limit nutrients in.
Because my focus is nutrient recycling using the microbial food web to feed diverse filter feeders, I like a high flow cryptic void underneath and flowing up thru high flow substrate providing oxygen & nutrients to nitrification bacteria who self regulate to food source. This high upflow sandbed will process much fish fertilizer.
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I remember those setups too...
I ran my intake bar just off the sand bed at a 5 degree angle to move waste and flush old water up as new water was circulated thru the bottom. Well we had a power outage and I came home to 50 gallons of a 55 gallon tank on the ground floor of our home. Learned a valuable lesson on what a break siphon hole in the top of a pipe is.
I ran my intake bar just off the sand bed at a 5 degree angle to move waste and flush old water up as new water was circulated thru the bottom. Well we had a power outage and I came home to 50 gallons of a 55 gallon tank on the ground floor of our home. Learned a valuable lesson on what a break siphon hole in the top of a pipe is.
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