Plumbing 1" drains, horizontal run question, returns question

t5Nitro

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Plumbing three 1" drains and two 3/4" returns.

Drains:
-There is about 60" max horizontal run distance from the furthest drain to the sump.
-There is about 20" of height between the bottom of the exit bulkheads on the tank drain and entry bulkheads on the top of the sumps top brace.
-Run distance is less if I run 45 elbows off almost immediately after the overflow's bulkheads slip pipe.
-In total, it looks like three drains might have the following configuration:
  1. Overflow bulkhead to slip pipe with an immediate 45 degree elbow
  2. Short 45 run, maybe between 5-10", variable over three drains to stack them on top of one another.
  3. 45-60" max horizontal run (I think).
  4. 90 degree elbow and corner
  5. Straight pipe short distance about 1 ft
  6. 90 degree elbow down and attach into the entry bulkheads on the sump

Returns:
-Needing two return pumps
-Pump 1 will supply one 3/4" return line directly back to the tank
-Pump 2 will first supply a manifold of three exits (carbon/phos reactor, UV, fuge or ATS) before supplying the second 3/4" return back to the tank
-Presumably pump 2 should return back to the return line on the tank nearest the sump for less distance / resistance as it's feeding a manifold?
-The returns might have the following configuration with maximum distance given for the more distant return line:
  1. Straight pipe out of the return bulkhead on tank
  2. 90 elbow facing down
  3. Straight pipe short run down a few inches
  4. 90 elbow with 6-7 ft horizontal run
  5. 90 elbow to round corner with straight pipe to sit over the returns
  6. 90 elbow down with pipe/silicone tubing connected to the returns in sump chamber

Questions:
1. Will the drains be safe in this configuration and also be able to create full siphon / remain quiet with this horizontal run?
2. For the returns, is this too many 90 degree corners? Was looking at Jebao DCP pumps to save some cost.
3. Any changes you might recommend?
 

T-J

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Generally speaking, fewer 90s is better.
Could you post some pics of your setup and then maybe draw in your proposed plumbing?
 

FSP

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Like T-J said, pictures/drawings would definitely help :)

For beananimal (assuming since you mentioned three drains), horizontal pipes make for a couple issues:

- Siphon: once the siphon gets going, the horizontal configuration doesn't matter. It's starting that's the problem. The pipes have a harder time purging air, which makes it take longer to settle if it settles at all. Some potential fixes/good practice include:
  • Increasing pressure on the siphon line (removing the stand pipe in the overflow box or making the box taller)
  • Drilling a hole or two in the siphon just above the water level in the sump
  • Correctly sizing the siphon (not too big)
  • Placing the valve closer to the sump than the overflow box
  • Making sure the open channel doesn't convert to siphon mode too quickly when starting (siphon can't get necessary pressure because the open channel-siphon conversion stops water level from rising). This issue is pretty common with siphon kits that simply drill a hole in the elbow/U tube instead of the original JG fitting and tubing
  • Making sure the siphon doesn't terminate more than 1" under the water level in the sump

- Open channel: horizontal runs don't really affect performance of the open channel, but they generally contribute to noise issues. Water becomes turbulent which leads to splashing sounds and bubbles in the sump. This can be mitigated by running less through the open channel or (to a lesser extent) using a larger pipe size, which is always a good idea for an open channel. This will make tuning more finicky. A "cover" (elbows, U tube) can also help. I thought this was standard but apparently it isn't anymore :)

- Dry emergency: no issues here, just make sure it has enough headspace to actually handle starting or an emergency :)

4'-5' is a lot of horizontal run. If you're smart about it, size things accordingly, don't have a ton of gph and maybe use some spaflex, it should be okay, but I would expect it to fight you a bit.

I don't quite follow with the return line idea, but if I understand the manifold correctly, make sure you use check valves before the pumps reach the manifold if you're plumbing them into a shared line. If a pump fails, the other pump will likely shoot water through the dead pump instead of reaching your tank.

Less 90s is better if you're trying to get full value out of your pump (who wouldn't? ;)), but it's not like you'll have to go up two sizes by having an extra 90 or two. Your number sounds reasonable enough, and I would always oversize a DC pump anyway.
 

Marckoh

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Hi All - noob here; I will soon be installing my first salt tank with a very similar bean animal setup. My return is 3/4' and pump output is 1'. Should I maximize the 1' pipe until I get to the 3/4 manifold? or Maximize 3/4 pipe and have it start at the pump?

Thanks!
Mark.
 

Dburr1014

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With that long of a horizontal run, absolutely make sure you put some unions in there. And plan to clean them out at least once a year. Those horizontals will be a trap for detritus and feather duster worms. They will eventually get so built up in that pipe it will clog if not cleaned out.
 
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t5Nitro

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Hi All - noob here; I will soon be installing my first salt tank with a very similar bean animal setup. My return is 3/4' and pump output is 1'. Should I maximize the 1' pipe until I get to the 3/4 manifold? or Maximize 3/4 pipe and have it start at the pump?

Thanks!
Mark.
Is your sump remote or located under the tank within the stand? I think if it's nearby then I would simply downsize the pump to 3/4" at the pump and run 3/4" PVC to the tank returns.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To update this thread if others find it in search in the future -- I went with 1" drains x3 as they come off the overflow that way. I have between 1.5-2" negative slope from the overflow box to the sump with each of the drains. For the returns, I went with 1-1/4" PVC as far as possible (1-1/4" at the pump outlet which is the size of the outlets on the pumps that I am getting). The 1-1/4" downsizes to 3/4" near the tank. Ideally I would have 1-1/4" to 3/4" reducing coupler right at the tank return, although the amount of PVC fittings needed wouldn't have worked for the space I had before I ran into a wall, so I've got a 3/4" 90 elbow and then a very short segment 3/4" PVC pipe attached to that before I upsize to 1-1/4" the rest of the distance.
 

Marckoh

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Is your sump remote or located under the tank within the stand? I think if it's nearby then I would simply downsize the pump to 3/4" at the pump and run 3/4" PVC to the tank returns.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To update this thread if others find it in search in the future -- I went with 1" drains x3 as they come off the overflow that way. I have between 1.5-2" negative slope from the overflow box to the sump with each of the drains. For the returns, I went with 1-1/4" PVC as far as possible (1-1/4" at the pump outlet which is the size of the outlets on the pumps that I am getting). The 1-1/4" downsizes to 3/4" near the tank. Ideally I would have 1-1/4" to 3/4" reducing coupler right at the tank return, although the amount of PVC fittings needed wouldn't have worked for the space I had before I ran into a wall, so I've got a 3/4" 90 elbow and then a very short segment 3/4" PVC pipe attached to that before I upsize to 1-1/4" the rest of the distance.
perfect - yes sump is under tank - total run is less than 3 foot :) im going with 3/4 all the way, makes for easier plumbing too - thanks!!
 
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t5Nitro

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Sounds like a good plan. You shouldn't run into issues with that setup.
 
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t5Nitro

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Wondering if you guys would glue these white pieces of PVC (final stretch of the 3 drains before sump bulkhead) into the sump bulkheads or is this unncessary since they slide into the bulkhead about 3/4" to 1"?

20221228_124813.jpg
 
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